Grégoire Canlorbe

Grégoire Canlorbe

A conversation with Michael Bornhütter, for Bulletproof Action

A conversation with Michael Bornhütter, for Bulletproof Action

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Michael Bornhütter is a German sensei, stuntman, fight/stunt coordinator, and actor. He is notably known for The Saint: Wrong Number, The Bourne Ultimatum, V for Vendetta, and The Matrix Resurrections. He won a Screen Actors Guild Award for Outstanding Action Performance by a Stunt Ensemble in a Motion Picture for The Bourne Ultimatum; what’s more, he was nominated for a Screen Actors Guild Award for Outstanding Action Performance by a Stunt Ensemble in a Motion Picture for The Matrix Resurrections.

  Bornhütter is involved as a fight/stunt coordinator, fight choreographer, and martial arts/stunt teacher with Movision Movement, a Berlin based “stunt team & community of actors and stunt performers specializing in martial arts, fight design & movement preparation/training of lead actors.”

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Please tell us about Movision Movement. How was the company born, and what are its ambitions?

  Michael Bornhütter: I think Movision Movement was born through Manu [Manuel Werling] and Anna [Anna-Jorinde Pursche] because they both love movement, and both are excellent artists and martial artists. The deeper meaning in the name is found in the details—Mo-vision, the vision of the movement.

   I met Manuel on a no-budget film project (Dark Net: The Beginning) that I supervised as a fight choreographer; Manu also played a scene in the film, and I liked the art and style with which he moved, so we got together and I hired him as a fight choreographer assistant for a big film project (Tribes Of Europa). Manuel was a stunt performer before and from the moment we started working together everything went great. That’s when I joined Movision Movement. I also like the idea of Movie and Vision; that is another way of understanding the name.

Michael Bornhütter (in the foreground), and Manuel Werling (in the background)

  Grégoire Canlorbe: To what extent do the task of a sensei, martial-arts mentor—and the task of a fight coordinator—relate to each other?

  Michael Bornhütter: I think it’s close. Before I started the fight and stunt choreos, I was a sensei for mixed martial arts, just for martial arts. It helped me later to choreograph the fights; it helped me to deal with people and work with them. This is great for me. It’s a different job as a martial arts sensei, but it’s very similar because you work with people and explain to them how you do things. Teaching and learning is what I love about it.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you sum up the tale of your “40 years of experience in various traditional & modern fighting styles”?

  Michael Bornhütter: My journey began at the age of 12; that’s when I learned traditional fighting styles. I later started stunt training, in the 80s; times were different in this area. In 2000 I worked with Donnie Yen and learned film martial arts, which is completely different from reality. Because it’s unreal; there’s a short real part in the fight, but you could never use that on the street. I learned a soldier’s way of handling weapons, all weapons and knives; I was taught a soldier’s tactical drills. I learned all of this even before I was a stuntman; for, when I started martial arts, I had a sensei who unusually taught me a lot of weapons. He said all martial arts are good and so I learned how to use Sai and Tonfa [a weapon from Kobudo and Ju-Jitsu], and many other weapons and fighting styles like those I would make use of as a stunt and movie fighter.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: So, you’re experienced as much with firearms as with fencing, archery, and knife throwing.

  Michael Bornhütter: I remember The Three Musketeers [Paul W.S. Anderson’s version]; that was super crazy. We shot in 3D and everything had to be much more precise because the focus is much closer than in 2D; that means we had to be much more precise with the weapons. It made everything more complicated, but also more interesting. You can fake a lot of things—knife throwing and things like those in your question—under the camera; you can also do a lot of tricks when editing. But faking is a little more difficult in 3D.

Michael Bornhütter, Hamudi Ahmad, and Manuel Werling (from the right to the left)

  Grégoire Canlorbe: I believe one of your skills as a stuntman is also driving stunt.

  Michael Bornhütter: I’m not a very good precision driver, but I’ve had experience with precision driver things and have driven a lot of vehicles. There are people who drive much better than me, whom I would entrust with tasks such as getting involved with a car race in a parking without anything happening to the vehicle he is driving, or doing a precision drive on an actor and stopping just before hitting him.

  I do those things though; I also do things like a U turn. It’s all a matter of practice; you can learn all of that, it has a lot to do with what people want to specialize in. Car stunt has a lot to do with technical standards: if the car is to jump from a ramp, explode, or roll over, it has to be prepared adequately. That means you don’t just need someone who can drive; you also need someone with all the necessary know-how. I know all that, I was there a lot; but I always try to get away from those things, that’s not my stuff really.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you assess Nicolas Winding Refn’s Drive featuring Ryan Gosling in the role of a Hollywood stunt driver?

  Michael Bornhütter: I think the film is very good. There’s always a little bit of truth in a film, but it’s a romantic idea. There’s another old film that’s pretty cool related to it too, which I think is called Driver [Walter Hill’s Driver featuring Ryan O’Neal]; but of course that has nothing to do with reality either. From a cinematic point of view, Drive is awesome, with very good driving, and very good stunt driving, which, I have to say, are very well shot.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: When it comes to the way stuntmen are solicited, used, and treated in the Hong Kong movie industry, do you notice some significant difference with the way they are solicited, used, and treated in Hollywood?

  Michael Bornhütter: I got into Hollywood films relatively early: at the end of the 80s, while the wall was still in Berlin, I was a stuntman on a Hollywood film with Gene Hackman [Company Business], part of which was shot in Berlin. It was a film about the Cold War; before it was over and was supposed to hit theaters, the wall fell, that’s why the Americans withheld the film. When the wall fell, things moved on pretty quickly: a Hollywood film with Michael Douglas and Melanie Griffith [Shining Through] was made here in Berlin. In the beginning it was like you only ever worked with the Americans when they came here; that changed quite a bit in the 2010s, with the possibility offered to many German stunt people that they work in America once they’ve entered the SAG-AFTRA.

  I worked with the Chinese for the first time in 2000; I was the German stunt coordinator on a series [Der Puma – Kämpfer mit Herz] with which Donnie Yen was involved as an action unit director. I was a part of Donnie’s team, and did the casting of all the German fighters; I also worked on some choreos with Kenji [Kenji Tanigaki]. Initially it wasn’t possible to work in Hong Kong, as the Chinese weren’t really interested in working with Europeans. It is now the case that many German stunt people are brought to Hong Kong or India, and filming there; but I think it is only ten or fifteen years ago that they were offered that possibility. The whole thing has become more global, which was actually kickstarted by Jackie Chan; he worked in America himself, and inspired other Chinese movie fighters (like Jet Li, and Donnie Yen) to do the same. He did a lot to have people from all countries collaborate with each other in Hong Kong, and elsewhere.

  Here is a “significant difference” I see between the Americans, the Germans, and the Chinese when it comes to stunt and movie fighting. The Americans do everything with a lot of money, and with a lot of technology and people; the Chinese do everything with a lot of tricks and try to do the job with less equipment, less money, and less people but with effective things and ideas. And we Germans are somewhere in between.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: You were involved with Matrix Resurrections as a stunt performer, and nominated by the Screen Actors Guild Awards for outstanding performance by a stunt ensemble in that framework. How do you remember the experience?

  Michael Bornhütter: For me it wasn’t as exciting as it might have been for the younger people, as I made a lot of films like that before. It was nice to see Keanu Reeves and Carrie-Anne Moss though. I’ve known, and worked for, the director who made the film for a long time, and I actually got the job through her. I got to know the Wachowski sisters on V for Vendetta; that was the first time I worked with them, and I thought they were great and got along well with them. On Cloud Atlas I did the fight choreography for the two of them; on Matrix: Resurrections I was a stunt performer for Lana Wachowski, her sister Lilly was no longer on board. The work was okay for me. I knew all the stuntmen; we did a lot of stunts in that scene [an explosion scene] I was in, and it was fun.

Michael Bornhütter (on the left), and Manuel Werling (on the right)

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you assess the stunt prowess of those actors—like Jean-Paul Belmondo, Jackie Chan, or Tom Cruise—doing their own stunts?

  Michael Bornhütter: Very interesting question. To an extent, young actors are all Belmondo who are fit, who are go-getter, who do a lot of their own stuff; all have to meet their physical limitations someday though. Even Jackie Chan, however fit he may continue to be nowadays, has six doubles now.

  Anyway, once you start working in America, it becomes difficult for a lead actor to do a lot of his own stunts; because if he gets injured, no insurance will pay for it. Some Hollywood actors, like Tom Cruise, do a lot of their stunts; but I don’t think some performer, even Tom Cruise, can really be covered by insurance if he says: “I will make all my stunts myself.” There are certain things Jackie Chan wouldn’t even do himself if he were still working in America; the risk is just too great that he would injure himself and then stop shooting. I know he hurt himself a few times in Hong Kong on Hong Kong productions; but it’s handled differently there. The man is put in plaster, then the plaster is painted on and then he continues.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: David Worth’s Kickboxer enjoys everlasting fame and popularity alongside martial artists, stuntmen, and the public at large. How do you feel about it?

  Michael Bornhütter: I find that film to be pretty good. It’s like the other movie with Ryan Gosling: it’s just fiction, a romantic idea. There has to be a story, and the fights have to be choreographed in such a way that whoever is supposed to win wins; that means, of course, like in Rocky, you don’t see a real failure. If a boxer had to analyze the Rocky films, he would laugh his head off at how the fight goes in there; everyone still likes the fights and it’s great.

  One reason why Kickboxer has been so popular in the stunt profession may be that it was released at a time when a new generation of stunt people in Germany—we were just mesmerized by all those Jackie Chan movies—was trying to bring that Hong Kong spirit to the German movies, and to fight differently than what was expected from us at the time. I remember I was told then somehow: “Hey, this looks too much like martial arts, don’t do it;” but there were no fight choreographers in the 80s and 90s. The director said somehow: “Show them how to do the scene,” and it wasn’t called fight choreographer; that only came out in 2000 or at the end of the 90s. Anyway we could identify to the way those fights in Kickboxer were choreographed and shot, in a Hong Kong vein; but, of course, Kickboxer also contributed to making martial arts in movie increasingly popular alongside the German public at large.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Thank you for your time. Please feel free to add anything.

  Michael Bornhütter: There are some prizes I received; but for me it’s more important to do some nice work, I don’t need a nomination really.

  Transcribers: Davide Daniele Jakubowski;
& Grégoire Canlorbe with the help of Sonix AI

That conversation was originally published by Bulletproof Action, on 20 September 2022

A conversation with Mark Stas, for Bulletproof Action

A conversation with Mark Stas, for Bulletproof Action

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Mark Stas is a Belgian, South Korea-born martial artist, actor, screenwriter, and producer. The founder of a martial art, the Wing Flow System, he starred in features such as Borrowed Time 3 and English Dogs in Bangkok. Besides directing, writing, and producing short movie Emerging from the Shadows (in which he acted), he wrote At the Edge, a short movie that is based on his own experience and which he acted in.

  He was an award winner in three different projects he was involved in, namely Emerging From the Shadows, At the Edge, and Borrowed Time 3. An award-winning choreographer for Borrowed Time 3, he received the award of “Best Ensemble” at the “Los Angeles Actors Award” for his acting as Inspector Chan in Borrowed Time 3.

  One the newest projects Mark Stas is being involved with is Abel Ernest Tembo’s feature Funayurei, which is based on a screenplay by Grégoire Canlorbe, and in which Mark Stas both serves as an executive producer and as a lead actor alongside Manuel Werling and Ron Smoorenburg.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: You were given the nickname of the Belgian Bruce Lee. Do you find it to be somewhat reductive?

  Mark Stas: It all depends on the point of view, but it’s a real honour to be compared to him of course. He is the legend himself, unbeatable in many aspects whether it’s in his martial arts spirit and skills, his personal training creativity or his performance in movies. He paved the path for so many and surely inspired me along my martial arts path.

  Strangely I never really practiced his JKD. But I share 100% his tremendous focus and determination to become the best in what he did.

  I could only say reductive in the sense that I developed differently in martial arts: inspired by him to become the best possible version of myself through 100% dedication and personal training.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Do you believe Bruce Lee to have been offered an appropriate treatment in Quentin Tarantino’s Once Upon a Time in Hollywood?

  Mark Stas: Here has been a lot polemic. I can underling though the react of his daughter Shannon Lee.

  But I also think it’s mere a point of view and although I’m a huge fan of Bruce Lee myself, sometimes there is a particular reason. I read for example what Mike Moh (who portrays Bruce Lee in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood) wrote in his interview:

  “In the film it was a challenge I got the first point — I knocked him on his ass first. And Bruce at that time was so cocky and maybe got a little excited and he didn’t know Cliff Booth has killed dozens of people with his bare hands — and that’s what people may not realize up until that moment in the film,” he said. “It’s a hugely important scene — what better way to show how dangerous Cliff is than for him to show up and even match him for a little bit with Bruce?”… “I can see how people might think Bruce got beat because of the impact with the car, but you give me five more seconds and Bruce would have won,” Moh continued. “So I know people are going to be up in arms about it, but when I went into my deep dive of studying Bruce, he more than anybody wanted people to know he’s human.”

  But we all know how big his influence was and still is. They forget maybe he was cocky but in the sixties, times weren’t as tolerant as today towards Asians (I recall the fact that Hollywood preferred David Carradine over Bruce Lee because he was too Asian…). And to survive in the world, especially in the movie world he had to be strong and prove himself.

  Such a presentation of Bruce Lee can never destroy his inspiration and knowledge he left in this world even after 50 years.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you sum up the Wing Flow System, and its specificities with respect to the Wing Chun?

  Mark Stas: It’s a personal martial art vision which wasn’t really meant in the beginning to be promoted publicly.

  Highly influenced by Wing Tsun, and trained by the best masters in this particular style, I went for personal reasons my own way after 33 years martial arts training. It’s characterised by highly precise and perfect controlled attacks and defences, which are linked to a highly developed economy of motion and specific body mechanics. On top of that it has the soft-hard (yin-yang) aspect woven in the actions, where especially in close quarter it excels. When linked to a strategy and tactics, one will know that power or speed alone can be beaten (look at The Art of War to understand how strategy is woven into intelligent action).

  The difference with Wing Chun is that with everything I learned, studied and the experience I gathered, I had to kick out many movements or concepts in order to find something that could fit my needs as a martial artist. Many call it an improved version but others can claim their so called traditional wing chun as better with the full curriculum (but what serves theory if in practise they lack understanding of principles and body mechanics, let alone when demonstrating it…).

  I simply put it as a personal expression, thanks to my experience and hard work. Since it’s a personal system, it’s not always easy to structure for others a system that personally fits. But there exist a full teaching program where the most interesting part starts after the core levels (we distinguish a basic core, intermediate and advanced core block): all these levels are mandatory levels to develop the practitioner. Compare it also to for example Karate where at reaching the black belt, real training can start.

  Wing Flow System (WFS) has a strong but simple self defence concept which attracted the main instructor of the RAID (Special Force) in Lyon, France and many champions and high level champions in Brazil or Thailand witnessed WFS with success. People just need to understand that with WFS you enter in the ‘art’ and not purely competition area. Long term vision and development are essential since we all grow older and the bodily capacities and mind changes over time. I place WFS in the category of longevity martial art without being too much mystic about skills. It’s all about correct use of body structure, hard and persistent training and of course correct guidance if speaking about in-depth details.

  But as they say, there is no accounting for tastes.

Mark Stas (on the right) with Grégoire Canlorbe (on the left)

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you react to the claim that, just like absolute truth in the field of ideas is unattainable and only approachable, and only approached through competition between ideas, perfection in the field of martial arts is unattainable and only approachable, and only approached through the experience of fighting?

  Mark Stas: In martial arts what is truth? How to measure? Your question is a delicate one.

  Every martial art has a specific purpose, a sense. It all started with the origin of a martial art and how it developed over the years.

  We are largely influenced by what is on social media or the broadcasted highly paid boxing, MMA fights and so on. Sports gather people or create a certain atmosphere but martial arts practise is to me more a personal and individual fascinating way of life. You become a specialist when you train what is necessary to become one, especially in martial arts. It’s true that is has been proven that certain arts have more potential to be victorious than other arts. But in my opinion, why some martial arts fail in the sports area is mainly because of the lack of good instructors who can teach the specific combat concepts useable in combat sports.

  Ironically a martial art has limits in the sports area due to the limits imposed. But the reason why it fails in the sports area is because 99% of all martial arts practitioners don’t train as intensively as boxing or MMA practitioners who compete. Martial arts have a lot of techniques whereas in combat sports not as many techniques are necessary: an extraction is needed and these must be combat ready.

  Martial artists are in general more lazy and live on false hope. I can say as a martial artist I train a lot. But I couldn’t even compare to high level sports athletes who train 5 times more than me. Imagine the average martial artist… But martial arts compensate this comparison in a ring or on the mat by training methodologies unique in their genre.

  But again, there exist all levels of martial artists, which go from horrible to excellent. It takes experience and an eye for details to detect great from good and mediocre from decent. When I improve my martial arts skills, I want to come to perfect execution in the feeling of it. I’m a fervent believer of practicing one movement a thousands times, which can be a beginners advice but absolutely to an advanced martial artist it will become a must to go the level of excellence.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you assess that movie saga starring Donnie Yen as Ip Man?

  Mark Stas: Donnie Yen did a great performance in Ip Man and it contributed highly to the fame of Wing Chun. He is a fantastic martial arts actor and he deserves the gory he worked so hard for.

  But distinguish movie and real Wing Chun practice. If I have to use my critical martial arts eye, it’s very well choreographed but a minor detail I would mention is that some actions are exaggerated. But that’s mere my own opinion. As a huge Wing Chun fan, I look forward seeing new Wing Chun movie creations.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: You’ve been in Bangkok for the filming of English Dogs in Bangkok. When comparing the Bangkok lifestyle with that of Brussels, Paris, or London, what are those differences that strike you most?

  Mark Stas: I lived 3 months in Bangkok and it was a unique period in my life and my movie career started there, although it was not foreseen that way at first.

  Bangkok, being a very busy metropole, it has really calming parks where I found this peace when I did my daily training. The temples and Buddhas are very impressive, which I loved a lot. I am a huge fan of Thai food and of course I enjoyed every single meal I ate there. Imagine the price quality of the food over there.

  The atmosphere is different from Europe and the kindness and smiles appearing on the faces of the Thai people are unique. There exists also the other side of the city, which attracts tourists, but each has to judge for himself which beauty to discover in this amazing city.

  Nevertheless I hold a very good memory thanks to Ron Smoorenburg who at first invited me over and got me involved in some movies. I could meet talented producers such as Daniel Zirilli or Dean Alexandrou and of course Byron Gibson and fantastic actors and stuntmen.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you sum up the tale of your dual collaboration with Ron Smoorenburg, and with Byron Gibson?

  Mark Stas: It was thanks to some of my videos that Ron discovered me on social media. We communicated and he invited me over. I was very busy at that time and only after a while after a difficult period in my life I made a break and left for Thailand. He wanted to see if I was that really good: the rest is history.

  He presented my to Byron, since he was still filming his English Dogs in Bangkok: after seeing our first fight scene, Byron wanted me to do a second fight scene for the same movie. Thanks to that first fight scene, I got the chance to play a part in Dean’s movie, Haphazard.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Your fight with Ron Smoorenburg is a climactic point in English Dogs in Bangkok. Please tell us about the way it was choreographed, executed, and shot.

  Mark Stas: First the luck was that Ron and I were from the beginning in very good harmony, although we practice different arts. So after creating the fight scene, I always film it and overview it to make changes. We rehearsed the changes and we shot the fight scene. Ron is very good in placing the camera angle and together with Byron they shot the full fights rather quickly. Byron himself is very dynamic in the way he shoots. With a powerful editing, Ron did an amazing job and luckily I could give him some pointers helping him for my movements, and the result is very nice for my first movie appearance.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How is At the Edge exactly based on your own experience?

  Mark Stas: Around 2015 or 2014, together with Tomo, my long term student and assistent we made some quality videos and he introduced me to the director Lorenzo Vanin. After a great video we created, I wrote a part of my life which was then used to create a short movie with them. I told them I will be in Thailand but we could film over there. I made arrangements to bring them over and after hard work to create the full short, we shot it in Bangkok.

  I got many messages from people who found a true message and strength in it for their lives. At an emotional depth, although at a highlight in martial arts, there was this turning point, which made me to decide to take a break and leave Belgium. This short movie traces back this moment in my life (without now entering in details).

  It was put visually very good by the director Lorenzo Vanin, some parts couldn’t be as I expected due to limited possibilities although I’m proud of the result. All actors did also a great job.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: You’re fluent in Flemish, English, French, German, and Portuguese. Which of those languages do you find to be most appropriate to express love-related things?

  Mark Stas: Luckily I only need to express my love in one language. I’m not sure if Dutch would be the easiest way to express deep feelings although I don’t speak my mother tongue so often.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you remember your collaboration with David Worth who served as a cinematographer on Borrowed Time 3?

  Mark Stas: Knowing he would co-produce Borrowed Time 3 was a real honor! Movies like Bloodsport or Bronco Billy are memorable references in the movie world even after 35 years. His experience contributed a lot in Borrowed Time 3 and meeting him was for me a true milestone. He’s a big man.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Would you be ready to return as Inspector Chan in a new sequel to Borrowed Time?

  Mark Stas: Borrowed Time has something powerful, well created by Alan Delabie, and there exist some ways to create spin offs, etc. If there would be a proposal with a good script, then definitely.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: When it comes to the art of movie directing, how do you compare the respective techniques and ways of proceeding of Alan Delabie (on Borrowed Time 3), and of Taffy Edwards (on English Dogs in Bangkok)?

  Mark Stas: They have their own way to create and direct movies and that’s great, cause the individual vision in creating makes the difference instead of copying the same. Both movies have a different action idea. Both directors have a different martial arts background: the Karate and Nunchaku for Alan Delabie, while Taffy Edwards loved Greco-Roman wrestling.

  This also influences the action scenes they wanted to create, although I could show a more Asian fighting style in English Dogs in Bangkok. (We can’t forget that the story is based on a true story.) Some parts of English Dogs in Bangkok reminded me of some great movies, although the English touch is visible compared to Borrowed Time 3, which goes in the direction of the eighties action movies.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Would you seize the opportunity to act in a movie by Wong Kar-wai, who directed The Grandmaster starring Tony Leung as Ip Man?

  Mark Stas: The cinematography is marvelous and I really loved how it was displayed. The majestic details are amazing. When I saw the movie, I totally enjoyed it. Different as the Donnie Yen’s Ip Man movies but I place it visually on a higher scale. Although many didn’t like it as much as Ip Man because the Wing Chun was less pronounced, but to me the aesthetic was perfectly woven in the action. I would definitely say yes to Wong Kar-wai.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: One of your most recent achievements is Emerging from the Shadows. Please tell us about it.

  Mark Stas: What started as a fight scene idea became an award winning short movie: who wouldn’t be proud of this?

  I was very lucky to have Ron Smoorenburg (yes again him) by my side for the main part I created in Italy. But I left it aside due to a lack of quality at first (no budget was planned and filmed with my iPhone without a real experience). Then when one of the actors, Max Repossi died prematurely, I decided to finish the short. I created a powerful introduction and an original opening credits (which by the way won an award), I worked hard in the editing. I could get the help from my friend Lina for the Japanese part in it and thanks to the help of Tomo for the colouring, but Jan De Hul did a huge job for the main color grading. And we obtained the best possible result ever.

  Finally it was a short movie in memory of Max and this sad tragedy helped me to continue to work hard to not let the project in vain.

  The few articles written were more than positive and I’m very proud with my first full creation, for which I won a Special Jury Award (Best Actor) or Best Action Short, Best Opening Credits, Critic’s Choice Award (Best Director) or the Award of Prestige for Best Choreography.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: What can you let us glimpse of that character you’re acting as in Funayurei—Genji?

  Mark Stas: The story is very well written (thanks to the talent of Grégoire Canlorbe) and I was attracted by the character of Genji, which was presented to me. He is the leader of a mercenaries group to find the legendary Funayurei, who is like a ghost. He has this more philosophical side which is woven into his character. His fighting skills are highly efficient but very exquisite and only he would be capable to capture the Funayurei, with whom he has a certain bond.

  The story has a very good intrigue between the Funayurei and Genji. We are still in a debut phase, but it promises to be a unique and very interesting movie concept. There are some high level actors involved such as Ron Smoorenburg or Manuel Werling. The director Abel Ernest has put a high standard, but I believe it can become a worthy project with story surprises. I really look forward.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Spiritually speaking, do you rather consider yourself a man from the East, or one from the West?

  Mark Stas: I grew up in Europe, more precisely in Belgium but I traveled a lot around the world. I visited Asia around 7 times. But deep inside I was always attracted by the Asian culture besides of course martial arts, which were since my childhood my biggest passion.

  I think I’m spiritually more Asian but with a European touch. I was deeply influenced by Asian books such as Art of War, Hagakure, Tao Te Ching and the philosophy of Bruce Lee. Although I love the readings of Aristotle, Marcus Aurelius or Paulo Coelho. Martial art practice goes hand in hand with spirituality: form training and individual training are tools to develop one’s spirituality.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Thank you for your time. Is there anything you would like to add?

  Mark Stas: With passion and pursuing one’s dreams and vision, a lot can be achieved. Never let negative critics abandon your believes. Work hard, surround yourself by the best, cooperate intelligently cause no one can do everything by himself and go for it. Thank you for this interview Grégoire.

That conversation was initially published on Bulletproof Action, in May 2023

A conversation with Ron Smoorenburg, for Bulletproof Action

A conversation with Ron Smoorenburg, for Bulletproof Action

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By Bram Heimens

  Ron Smoorenburg is a Dutch martial artist, actor, stuntman, and fight choreographer. He is notably known for his respective fights with Scott Adkins in Ninja: Shadow of a Tear, with Michael Jai White in Never Back Down: No Surrender, and—above all—with Jackie Chan in Benny Chan’s and Jackie Chan’s Who Am I? He currently lives in Thailand.

  One the newest projects Ron Smoorenburg is being involved with, here as an actor, is feature Funayurei, which is being directed by Abel Ernest Tembo from a screenplay by Grégoire Canlorbe.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: You started your practicing martial arts at the early age of seven, in Netherlands. At the time of your youth, were martial arts, and those movies centered on martial arts, as popular in Netherlands as they were, say, in America?

  Ron Smoorenburg: Actually it was the best time ever in the 80’s early 90’s and I’m very happy to be born in this generation. These days movies were motivating, actors looked ripped and movies had great training sessions on music, there were lots of martial art movies on VHS video cassette, I remember watching Karate Kid on a birthday party and we all stood up and jumped around doing kicks, a start of a journey which never stopped since then. We also had this series called ‘The Master’ a ninja tv series, all the kids were making ninja stars and literally playing ninja outside. When I was 12 I saw Young master on tv from Jackie Chan and a few years later JCVD’s Bloodsport came out and No Retreat No Surrender movies we basically watched everyday till there was no sound anymore.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How did Jackie Chan notice you, and end up hiring you to play the strongest of the two opponents at the end of Who Am I?

  Ron Smoorenburg: My boss in the office I worked saw an article about Jackie Chan casting for 300 extras in his movie shooting in Holland. I asked half a day off to send a letter and pictures to the agency in Rotterdam. After pushing a lot I was chosen out of 1000 applicants to become an extra.

  I had to play 3 days as a business guy in the background and you can actually see me in one of the scenes. After the Dutch local stunt team laughed about my ambition and literally ridiculed me I asked one of the JC team members if I can do action, he asked me to give him a showreel. I was a graphic designer so the same night I made up a cover like I was already some kind of action guy in movies. I just had the record highest (kick 11 feet) on national tv and I always did movie fight demo’s on martial art events. I also was the first Karateka doing a free style Kata – A karate form on music and I had all of this on tape.

  And the next day after the team of JC saw the video in a lunch break they called me over to do the same moves live in front of them. They said I was the best out of 20 guys auditioning for the role of the final fight scene. 10 minutes later someone came to take measurements for the suit I had to wear in the final fight. It was like winning the lottery but another challenge emerged.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Did you have some trouble adapting to the quick rhythmic movements of Jackie Chan?

  Ron Smoorenburg: To answer this question the best is that you can compare it with putting someone in a racecar who never drove a Formule 1 race. Even though I am a martial artist all my life, fighting someone like Jackie, top of the top level in a 1st movie ever is definitely a challenge.

  I was always looking at JCVD doing splits high kicks, and JCVD doesn’t really use these rhythms Jackie uses. Even action veterans like Scott Adkins and Eric Jacobus admit that this HK style isn’t easy in the beginning and especially fighting these stars with the added pressure as well.

  I managed to pick it up. Sadly in the beginning they let another stuntman Brad Allen do a combo for me which I wasn’t even allowed to try before Jackie got a little upset, in the documentary they reversed it so they show Jackie got t little upset then bringing the stunt double, but that wasn’t the case so I felt a little bit hurt by this and it did even affect my career a little.

  In reality every stuntman should know that fighting Jackie isn’t easy and even his team members came to me saying after 15 years they were still nervous fighting Jackie. So what can we do? I have to see it positively and learning the hard way and having lots of pressure is part of the game sometimes. This is my big dream and no one will take it away, that’s why I never stopped.

  To be honest every movie after this experience was more easy as I was used to this huge amount of pressure. I can tell you even people who are in the stunt biz for years would still have a challenge right now if they have to fight Jackie, believe me.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: What is your view of the evolution of Jackie Chan’s career following the retrocession of Hong Kong?

  Ron Smoorenburg: I think he should leave politics to the politicians, he came from HK and he has a huge fanbase there, and things are sensitive.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How did it feel to act as a villain in Clarence Fok Yiu-leung’s Martial Angels?

  Ron Smoorenburg: Actually he gave me a hell of an opportunity but with acting I was still beginning so I definitely could have done better now. It was a cool movie with 7 action girls and a great concept.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Please tell us about the backstage of that fight in Prachya Pinkaew’s Tom-Yum-Goong in which you’re one of many fighters facing Tony Jaa.

  Ron Smoorenburg: When I came to Thailand to do a European tv series, I visited the set of this movie and met the director Prachya, I literally did the same as I did with Who am I? I had to show some moves to the director and they asked me if I was ok to be in a group fight because they already shot all other fights, I was happy to be doing action in Asia and with a cool action star like Tony Jaa so I agreed. We got on really well. He actually gave me a real good kick straight in the face and that was very memorable.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you account for the popularity of Thailand when it comes to choosing the main location for the plot in an action movie?

  Ron Smoorenburg: Thailand got it all, urban, forest, alleys, rooftops, mountains, beaches, also some very gritty and characteristic streets in Bangkok from rough to high class. You can get a lot of things done in Thailand.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: After spending so many years in Thailand, do you sense your heart and soul have become those of a Thai man?

  Ron Smoorenburg: Yes I have this sense of freedom and life which I don’t find in the west, Bangkok is alive day and night, I train in the night, also the Thai smile and general happiness is here for a fact and when I go back to Holland I see people running faster and looking more serious to be honest.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: You acted in Nicolas Winding Refn’s Only God Forgives. Esthetically speaking, how do you assess the fight opposing Vithaya Pansringarm to Ryan Gosling?

  Ron Smoorenburg: I’m not a fan of it, its not really memorable, I feel its just choreo to be choreo.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Do you share the common line of criticism that the way of filming the stunt and action stuff in John Wick movies lacks any true artistic dimension, thus boiling down to a mere “technician” work?

  Ron Smoorenburg: I felt that for the first 3 parts, there were no rewinders for me like the movies I described when I was young. But John Wick 4, did change it for me, having people like Donnie Yen, Scott Adkins, Marko Zaror they gave flavor to it. The other JW parts were more like ok there’s another guy in a black suit coming, and you just know he’s going to lose the same way as all the others did.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: You fought Scott Adkins in Ninja: Shadow of a Tear. How was the fight choreographed, executed, and shot? How do you sum up what makes the prowess of Isaac Florentine in filming action?

  Ron Smoorenburg: This was a scene where we had to do all in 1 take and this is very cool that Isaac did this together with Choreographer Tim Man who is a genius. It was shot very well and we did have 1 rehearsal for it (Not like Jackie Chan where they do it straight away on the spot) In the original choreo I actually did a few jump kicks, but it was cut for some reason, its sad because I also like to show stuff. Still this fight is very nice and Scott Adkins is a beast (endurance wise) when it comes to shooting.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: You acted in Michael Jai White’s Never Back Down: No Surrender, in which you fought White himself. How do you assess Michael Jai White as a movie director, and as a martial artist?

  Ron Smoorenburg: I felt he was very good at punches besides his kicks, he’s a real martial artist and you can see and feel he loves it. Also to me he’s always a gentleman.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: In Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li, you acted alongside the late Michael Clarke Duncan. Did you have much interaction with him behind the camera?

  Ron Smoorenburg: Not too much but he was always smiling, he’s super humble and what a personality. Also if you see where he came from before he became an actor it’s more than respect what he did.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: To you, does Desperate Housewife’s Neal McDonough’s portrayal of Bison in Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li compare with that of Raúl Juliá in Street Fighter?

  Ron Smoorenburg: No it doesn’t work, they shouldn’t do these things.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: You were cast in Death Note: L Change the Word. Did you read the manga, Death Note?

  Ron Smoorenburg: Yes it’s super cool and I’m happy to be part of it.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How did you enter the world of Bollywood? How does it feel to be part of the latter?

  Ron Smoorenburg: We have Bollywood movies shooting in Thailand, and some directors remembered me and the stunt team and ask us to came over to Bollywood and south India for other movies. It’s always a challenge getting your money though in 90% of the cases to be honest. And they are not that safe as well. The coolest movie I did was definitely Brothers with Akshay Kumar with a cool MMA fight in the ring. That movie also had good drama and was a remake of Warrior.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: What can you tell us of that new project you’re being involved with as an actor, alongside Mark Stas—Funayurei?

  Ron Smoorenburg: I’m very excited about this project as I will fight alongside Mark. Mark is amazing and for me a new action star not less than Donnie Yen, Jackie or Jet Li, for real. Marks action style and adaptation, implementation is amazing. Real time on the spot he can even adapt if needed. He’s a true master. I actually contacted him years ago and he came to Thailand, We did 2 big fights in English Dogs the movie and it’s very memorable. We always look out for the next time to fight and one of the main reasons I upgrade myself so hard is to prepare for my next fight.

  I created my own movie style Recharge and I feel it’s the perfect to fight Mark with Wing Flow. I love Mark and really he deserves all the best. Having Mark is having a Diamond on board. Every investor/director/producer should be very happy to have him, and I’m happy to work alongside or fight with him.

By Bram Heimens

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Thank you for your time. Is there anything you would like to add?

  Ron Smoorenburg: Currently RECHARGE, the fighting style I developed is going really well, its based on chain lighting and has lots of unique combos and some unique kicks I designed from scratch. The message I have for performers and artists is to always be unique and creative, never follow the herd. Now I’m going to USA with my Management, Hollywood productions, Varol Porsemay to set a foot on the ground there. I realize I have to offer something, that’s why I work day and night on it. It’s like as a car which can have a nice a cover but also needs a good engine. The stronger the engine is the better the car, so keep working on yourself, and with Love… you get what you can carry. As I always say, LIFE IS ACTION.

That conversation was originally published by Bulletproof Action, in April 2023

A conversation with David Worth, for Bulletproof Action

A conversation with David Worth, for Bulletproof Action

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David Worth is an American director of photography and film director. He contributed as cinematographer to more than twenty films, including Bloodsport, Any Which Way You Can, and Bronco Billy. He directed movies such as Warrior of the Lost World (which he also wrote), Lady Dragon, Hard Knocks, and Kickboxer.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: In Warrior of the Lost World, a 1983 Italian production,you had the honor to direct legendary actor Donald Pleasence [Dr Loomis in the Halloween saga]. How do you remember this collaboration?

  David Worth: I was very honored to work with a gentleman, with the acting acumen and the acting skills of Donald Pleasence, who had been in so many great films. He was in the original Dr. No, he was in Halloween. He was in a great film by Roman Polanski. I’m trying to remember the name of that one. He was in the film The Great Escape with Steve McQueen. He’s truly a great, great, great actor! So I was very pleased to work with him. He was only there for a week of our short schedule, doing his part as Prossor, but he was very prepared, very intense. He even insisted that Persis Khambatta spit in his face for real when it was required for the scene, even though we could have faked it because it was done in cuts. But he insisted that Persis spit in his face to motivate him as Prossor, and I thought that was extraordinary! Mr. Pleasence was a very brilliant gentleman to work with.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: What is your view, generally speaking, of the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s Italian “genre movie,” i.e., giallo, cannibal film, and postapocalyptic? And of movie-directors such as Lamberto Bava, Dario Argento, Umberto Lenzi, and Ruggero Deodato?

  David Worth: Dario Argento’s work, I know very well, as well as his daughter’s, Asia Argento. I know their work very well. The others I don’t know because I was never a follower of many of the post-apocalyptic films. Any of the cannibal films, I don’t really know those works. But Dario Argento, I thought, was a fine filmmaker, and he made a lot of very interesting, horrific films in the ’70s and ’80s.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Shark Attack 2 is notoriously better—and much more generous in terms of “shark attacks”—than its predecessor. How did you manage to save that saga that started so poorly?

  David Worth: The late, great producer at New Image, Danny Lerner, I had known him for 10 years, and he gave me the script for Shark Attack 2 and asked me to go to Cape Town in South Africa to make it. When I looked at the first Shark Attack, I realized it was a problem because it’s called Shark Attack, but there are virtually no shark attacks in the movie. So from doing second unit work with the great second unit director Glenn Randall and from being a cinematographer and editor for many years, I knew that we needed a lot of pieces to make a shark attack work. So I began to break apart the sequences and analyze what I needed, and I needed several things. First, I needed a real dummy shark, 25 or 30 feet long, that could be towed with a jet ski to go right by the boats, so we could see the size of it. Then, I needed several biting heads, big biting heads that could be operated by stunt divers, and that we could bite the actors with. Then, I needed fins that could be seen on top of the water, that could be driven by stunt actors, stunt divers so that I could have the shark turning left or right or attacking. And then, I also used a lot of real shark stock footage. I used real shark stock footage swimming toward the camera, going left, going right. Then, I would use the pieces that I invented to tie the story together, and we it made it work very, very well.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Were you approached to work on those other cult shark-series that are Mega Shark and Sharknado?

  David Worth: No, I was never asked. I was never approached. I wasn’t even approached when New Image did their last shark movie that Danny Lerner directed. I had done my share of shark attack movies. I liked the genre, I had fun with it, and I was ready to move on.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: The diptych formed by Lady Dragon and its sequel-remake is a climactic point in your career as a movie director. How did you get the best from Cynthia Rothrock?

  David Worth: Cynthia is still and was once one of the very best actors in martial arts. I loved her work. I loved working with her. Even though they are martial artists, they are actors first. I just had to sit her down and talk with her about the part, about her responsibilities, about her emotions. And as long as I gave it the time, she would come up with the proper emotion. The thing I remember most about Cynthia is, we were working in Indonesia. There was no craft service. There was no place to go to the bathroom. I said, “Where’s the bathroom?” They pointed out there. That tree, that’s the bathroom. She was tough. She had been trained in Hong Kong Action! Cynthia started her career there in Hong Kong where they treat stuntmen like disposable cups. They just go through them. And she was really quite brilliant to work with, Cindy was out there every single day in the heat and the dust and the dirt, doing all the kicks and all her own stunt work. I continue to admire her so very much and would be thrilled to work with her again…

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Would you be ready to direct a third installment in the Lady Dragon saga, starring Rothrock again?

  David Worth: I already have a part three for Lady Dragon. If she’s ready, I’m ready to do it anytime. I have the script. Unfortunately, no one’s interested. They say that Cynthia and I are too old… But I’m ready and I know Cynthia is ready. She’s beautiful. She’s still in shape and still beautiful. I see her on Facebook & Instagram every day.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Your work as a cinematographer on Bloodsport is never so moving, impactful, as in those scenes featuring an alone Jean-Claude Van Damme strolling, meditating, and training in Hong Kong with Stan Bush’s song, “On My Own,” as a background score. Please tell us about the creative process behind such images.

  David Worth: Bloodsport was a very unique film to be part of. I was at the right place at the right time. Jean-Claude was at the right place at the right time. Everything came together in Hong Kong. We were the smallest film done by Cannon films that year. They were busy doing big $20 and $30 million movies, and we had a little two and a half… $2,300,000 movie in Hong Kong. Nobody paid attention to us. Jean-Claude was at the beginning of his career, and again, he was an actor first. So, he was ready and willing to do anything and everything to show his acting talent, as well as his martial arts. We captured all the footage we needed of him, and then later in post-production, we found the right song to use to help the mood of that scene, which turned out very, very well. He was brilliant and still is a brilliant martial artist and actor.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Please tell us about the filming of that scene with Jean-Claude Van Damme overhanging the city like a demigod contemplating Greece from the summit of Olympus?

  David Worth: When he’s up on the top of the hill with his legs spread over looking the whole city? We took a tram all the way up to the top with all our equipment and lined it up so that we could get that shot. It wasn’t easy. But everyone in Hong Kong was willing to help out and help us to make a good film. We had a great Hong Kong producer named Charles Wang at Salon Films, who was actually the godfather to my son, David, and a great man. And he’s not with us any longer. But he was so helpful in getting both Bloodsport and Kickboxer made with the best possible crew and the best possible Panavision equipment on the planet.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Did JCVD and Michel Qissi contribute to the movie’s filming at another level than their acting (respectively as Kurt Sloane and as Tong Po)?

  David Worth: They did because they were both martial artists. Jean-Claude mostly did the choreography. He did most of the choreography for all of the fights because that’s his area of expertise, and I encouraged him to do it. Michel was the very, very bad man, Tong Po, in that movie. He’s a sweet man. He’s very gentle. He’s a real gentleman. But in that movie, he played a very evil man, Tong Po.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How did Mark DiSalle exactly contribute to Kickboxer’s directing?

  David Worth: I was hired as the director for Kickboxer. I supervised the casting. I polished the script. I storyboarded the entire production. I was there for every “action and cut.” I supervised all of the fights. Now, Jean-Claude was very influential in choreographing all of the fights because that was his area of expertise. But I did all the work of the director, and then Mark DiSalle decided to share my credit just before the film was finished in post-production.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you react to the surge of sequels or remakes that Kickboxer or Bloodsport would inspire?

  David Worth: First of all, I’m thrilled when anyone can make any film, any time. But I think with Bloodsport and Kickboxer, it’s very difficult to capture the enthusiasm and the camaraderie and the collaboration and the performances and the locations, especially in Hong Kong and Bangkok, that we had when we did Bloodsport and Kickboxer. I know there have been many sequels. I wasn’t involved in any of them. I don’t think they captured what we were able to capture with the original. They may have been much more expensive, but they didn’t have the heart and soul that our films had.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: As a cinematographer you collaborated twice with Clint Eastwood. Namely in Clint Eastwood’s Bronco Billy and in Buddy Van Horn’s Any Which Way You Can, both starring Eastwood and his then girlfriend and muse Sondra Locke. Quite a fantastic story! How do you sum it up?

  David Worth: This is a very long and detailed question. It would take me an hour to discuss that. I will give you the short version. If you want to see the long version, go to www.amazon.com and order my book Zen & The Art Of Independent Filmmaking. All my filmmaking is in that book. In those hundreds of pages, I go through all my films in detail.

  Working with Clint Eastwood happened because of one person, Sondra Locke. I did a little film called Death Game, starring Sondra Locke, Seymour Cassel, and Colleen Camp. After that film had been filming for a week, the director fired the cinematographer, and the producer called me to see if I wanted to take it over. I didn’t want to inherit someone else’s mess, so I asked, “Who’s starring?” When he said, “Sondra Locke, Seymour Cassel, and Colleen Camp”, I said, “Okay, I’m in.” Because I knew Sondra’s work. Sondra had gotten an academy nomination for Heart Is a Lonely Hunter on her first film. Seymour had been nominated for an academy award on John Cassavetes’ film Faces. So I was in. It was a very small production. We only had 13 days to finish what was left to film. Now, they were also shooting wide-screen, anamorphic Panavision. This was my first time using it. I discovered the Panavision camera… even though it was big… it was very ergonomically correct, so I could hand-hold it with no problem. I decided to save time in the production by not using the camera on a tripod, but instead handholding it. I handhold 75 or 85% of that film. We would be sitting in dailies, and I’d say… it would be a closeup of Sondra… and I’d say, “That’s a handhold shot,” and the director, he’d say, “No, it’s not.” I’d say, “Watch it.” Then on screen he would say, “Cut!”, and the camera would go all over the place. That’s how we made it through. It was very long days, but we got it all done.

  Sondra, Seymour and Colleen were brilliant. They did a great job. Seymour and the producer had a falling out, and he never came in to do the dubbing. So I ended up having to dub his voice. The film was being edited by someone who did not appreciate the material, and after 6 or 8 weeks the director, Peter Traynor, called Sondra and I to see a screening of a rough cut… It Was Awful. It was horrendous. Sondra was sitting like this the whole time, with her head down, she couldn’t even look at it. During the screening, I kept shouting, “Where’s this shot?”, “Where’s this shot?”, “Where’s this shot?” Finally, after the screening was over, I had the director, take Sandra and me to the editing room, where I was able to find the shots and fix several of the scenes to show him how they hadn’t been cut correctly. So Peter fired the editor and I became the cinematographer and editor on Death Game and finished it professionally. Sondra had asked me, “Please finish this film so I can be proud of it,” and I did. As we know, Sondra went from that film to The Outlaw Josey Wales with Clint Eastwood, and began a 15-year relationship… That was how I got to Clint, because Sondra began nudging Clint about my work.

  A couple of years down the road, Sondra and Clint did the film The Gauntlet. It was just those two, Sondra and Clint, up on the big screen, one-on-one. After I’d seen the film, I called her and said, “I’m so proud of you up there, co-starring with Clint”, giving him all he could handle as the actor. I said, “It was a great job.” She said, “Yeah, we had a great time.” But he had a big fight with his cinematographer because he wouldn’t shoot by campfire light. I said, “What? I just shot a whole off-road motorcycle movie by campfire light.” Then Sondra asked me a question, that would change my life as a cinematographer. She said, “You wouldn’t happen to have a reel of that you could drop off for Clint to see, would you?” I said, “Yes, I would.” That’s how Clint saw my work. A couple of years later, he saw more of my work. And that’s how I eventually did Bronco Billy. But it was a long process. It took several years for it to happen.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Boxing, mentorship, and tetraplegia are topics common to your Kickboxer and to Clint Eastwood’s Million Dollar Baby. How do you assess the way those topics are treated in Clint Eastwood’s movie?

  David Worth: The only one I really relate to… I don’t relate to boxing, I don’t relate to the medical condition, I do relate to mentoring. We all need mentors, and that film was basically about an old trainer who took this young lady and mentored her into becoming a championship boxer. I relate to that because I had two great mentors in my life that helped me in my cinematography and in lighting and directing, and they were Stanley Kubrick and Clint Eastwood.

  Stanley Kubrick, I was able to use him to mentor me because when I was editing Death Game… during the Post-Production of Death Game, I managed to get my hands on a 35-millimeter print of A Clockwork Orange. I had been a fan of that film ever since it was released, but I could never study it because… This was early 1970s. There was no VHS, there was no DVDs, there was, no Online, there was no Netflix, nothing. The only way to study a movie was to see it on the screen. And then, the projectionist would not play it again for you to study your favorite scenes. So, when I got my hands on this 35-millimeter print of A Clockwork Orange I was ecstatic!. I took all my work off the old upright Movieola and put Mr. Kubrick’s work on it… Then I spent hours running it forwards and backwards, & finally I discovered that Mr. Kubrick was building all his lighting into the sets and locations. Do you know Clockwork Orange?

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Yes, one of my favorite movies when I was a teenager.

  David Worth: You know the scene where Little Alex kills the Cat Lady with the sculpture of the giant phallus? When I was running the film, forward and backward. Suddenly, I hit the break and said: “What the fuck?” I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. Because at the end of that scene, Mr. Kubrick is following the Cat Lady and little Alex 360 degrees around that location. And he’s using a very wide-angle lens, like a 16 or 18-millimeter lens. I could see all four walls, the floor, and the ceiling, and I suddenly realized there were no movie lights. There were NO MOVIE LIGHTS! This was no student film. This was no Roger Corman film. This was a Stanley Kubrick production of a Warner Brothers film that had been nominated for four Academy Awards! I was stunned! I was flabbergasted! I was gobsmacked! I couldn’t believe what I was seeing! I slowly went back and froze the frames where I could see all the lighting… That’s when I discovered exactly what Mr. Kubrick had done! And that was to bring in several light sculptors, one in the form of a spiral, one in the form of a Christmas tree, others in bunches, each containing a lot of 150-watt bulbs. Then he plugged them into the wall sockets, said “We’re lit!” and shot the scene!

  Discovering THAT changed my life as a cinematographer. I even wrote an article in the American Cinematographer magazine, entitled, “If it’s good enough for Mr. Kubrick…” Why don’t more of us use this technique? It’s brilliant, because it’s actor-friendly and production friendly. If you build the lighting into the set, you can shoot 360 degrees. You never have to change the lighting when the director says, “Okay, I’m done in this direction. I’m going to shoot in the other direction…” I’ve been on the set where the director says, “Okay, I want to shoot the other way.” The DP says, “Okay, give us two hours to reset the lights.” I say Bullshit! And more importantly Mr. Kubrick said, “Bullshit!”

  And he began building all the lighting into the sets of his films, starting with Dr. Strangelove… 2001: A Space Odyssey, Clockwork Orange, and then, of course, the candlelight scenes in Barry Lyndon. This is the technique I brought to Bronco Billy. This is what I brought to Clint Eastwood.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: So, the connection between Clint Eastwood’s Bronco Billy and Stanley Kubrick is not only Scatman Crothers who acted in both Bronco Billy and The Shinning released the same year; it is also David Worth.

David Worth: Right! Because I brought the “Kubrickian Technique” of building the lighting into the sets or locations to Bronco Billy! We had a huge circus tent, and I said, “Okay, I want all the lighting built into this tent.” So, up high between the two upright tent poles, I had a connecting pole as well as two additional poles at right angles forming a “T…” Then we placed all our lighting onto these poles and the entire set was lit! I could walk in at 7:30 in the morning, hit the switch, take a reading with my light meter and say, “Okay, f2.8 in every direction, let’s shoot!” We did 40 or 50 setups a day. On a Warner Brothers film starring Clint Eastwood that would normally do 10 or 15 setups a day!

  Clint is a very efficient and very fast director. 75% of the time, he prints either the rehearsal or the first take. So everyone is on their toes. They don’t want to displease the Big Guy. So, he always comes in several days ahead of schedule. However, on Bronco Billy, he didn’t come in several days ahead of schedule. As a result of my building the lighting into all the other sets and locations, we came in two and a half weeks ahead of schedule, saving the production over a million dollars! That’s how I got to capture two Clint Eastwood films instead of one.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Did you like Kubrick’s last movie, Eyes Wide Shut?

David Worth: Didn’t like it… However, my only regret is that Stanley Kubrick didn’t get a chance to come into this century. He died in the 1990s. He began as a still photographer and was shooting SLR, single lens reflex 35-millimeter cameras. However, he never got his hands on a DSLR, the digital version. These cameras shoot from ISO 100 all the way up to ISO 400,000.  Trust me… He would have stood it on its ear, just like he did the Steadicam! That’s my regret: that Mr. Kubrick never got his hand on the DSLR that had a virtually unlimited ISO!!!

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Our interview comes to its end. Is there anything you would like to add?

  David Worth: Yes, there is something I would like to add. Clint Eastwood is a brilliant filmmaker. I loved his work, decades before I worked with him. He’s now 92 years old. He’s had an over 50-year relationship with Warner Brothers, doing huge productions: the Dirty Harry films, all very big hits. As well as his Academy Award winners like Mystic River & Million Dollar Baby & Unforgiven!!! The latest corporate-bottom-liner at Warner Brothers just severed their relationship with Clint after 50 years because his last film, Cry Macho didn’t make money. This is a guy who is the icon of icons. He’s been making hit movies longer than anyone has been around in this town. The icon of icons!!! At 92 years old, he should have carte blanche for anything he wants to do from here on out. Carte Fucking Blanche! Instead, these moronic assholes get rid of him because his last $20 million movie didn’t make enough money. And then they spend $200 million on the other big budget crap they churn out, on each of these comic-book-super-duper-hero movies. Have some respect for your elders! The stars who put WB on the map! That’s what I’d like to say!

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Thank you for your time. I was wondering: how do you feel about the breakup between Eastwood and Locke?

  David Worth: It was an awful breakup. I hated to see it. It should never have happened…   I never thought I would even meet Clint. It wasn’t on my radar because I knew I was making my little films on the side streets of Hollywood, and he was: “Clint Eastwood.” It was only because I did that little film, Death Game,… Sondra Locke who was the star of that film, liked my work & when she began working with Clint, she mentioned me, to him… That’s how I got my foot in the door, through the brilliant and insightful and compassionate Sondra Locke. And I’m eternally grateful…

That conversation was originally published on Bulletproof Action, in March 2023

A conversation with Brad Thornton, for Bulletproof Action

A conversation with Brad Thornton, for Bulletproof Action

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Brad Thornton is an American actor, martial artist, producer, and entertainment attorney. He tackles any challenge that presents itself, from leaping off a 250-foot railroad trellis to documenting the plight of the homeless to trekking across the High Sierras in search of tranquility and the perfect fishing hole.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: From Kickboxer IV: The Aggressor to Interstellar Civil War, you’ve been an action actor for the great Albert Pyun. Please tell us about this collaboration. What did you learn alongside Mr. Pyun?

  Brad Thornton: I learned a lot working with Albert. We first met during the audition process in Kickboxer 4. I remember there were like five auditions: three acting auditions and a couple of physical martial arts technique auditions. And at the beginning—this was my really first feature film where it was a lead role—and the producers, they weren’t really seeing Albert’s vision. They wanted to continue to go with Sasha Mitchell and stuff like that. And Albert wanted to give me an opportunity also to have some fun. So he kind of rewrote the Kickboxer 4 script to include my character. We got to do some of the fun stuff and this and that, and whatever. It was a blast to do. Working with him has really shown me a lot about just how quickly you can shoot an indie film. I remember on Kickboxer 4, one of our stunt scenes or whatever—a testament to the fighter I was working with, a stunt guy. We basically went through the moves about 15 minutes before we did the stunt. He said, “Okay, I’m going to come in and kick you here, I’m going to knee you here.” Then, he says, “Okay, I’m going to flip over you.”—when I grab him like this. I said, “Okay, well, when you flip over me, what about at the top of your thing, I flip over you? Then, we both land like that and just slam, slam.” And that’s the fight that ended up in that one scene. We did it in like 15 minutes, and Albert shot it in two takes, and then, we moved on. It was great.

  And then, in our latest Interstellar Civil War, which we did predominantly on a green screen, it was crazy. We shot this one scene for, like, one take. It felt like 30 minutes. There were so many pages to do and stuff like that. And then, that was it. That was the print. We moved on. Not even one for safety—do another take or whatever for safety. And it was really exciting in that manner, it was like play. You really have to come prepared and ready and stuff like that. But also, where Albert is at currently, which he’s been very public with regards to his health and stuff like that and some of the challenges ahead of him with regards to dementia and Alzheimer’s: one, I understand that ’cause I helped out my grandfather who had Alzheimer’s and stuff towards the end of his life. An Albert has always been a hero to me. He gave me my first shot at that film and stuff like that. So, working with him now and stuff and where he’s at is just an amazing experience for a testament to his passion for making films, for doing it his way, and to be able to create a niche of fans that are so true, and that’s worldwide—and that’s a testament to him and his creativity and his passion. I’ve got a lot of love for him.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Lando Smith, your character in Kickboxer IV, is just as charismatic and deep as those other key protagonists of the saga that are David Sloane and Xian Chow. How did you find the inspiration for your portrayal of Lando?

  Brad Thornton: That was the beginning, really, of my acting, and I wasn’t really solid on my technique, yet. So, I really drew upon just myself in that manner, and I tried to learn the lines and apply the intentions and stuff like that, but I really just tried to be present and real. You know? But I think along the way, my acting technique and the craft of acting have changed a lot, and I really love and I feel very blessed by it. I’ve trained with Iris Klein. She’s one of my coaches in LA. I began training with her mother, Janet Alhanti. And I trained at the Tom Todoroff Conservatory out of New York. And all that training has helped me hone in on my technique as an actor. So, I think that my inspiration back then, and even still today—I think you have to draw upon yourself. You know? What would you do in that imaginary situation, and how would you act and really make the lines your own? That goes a lot into the preparation and stuff. Yeah, so, I felt like I was more winging it way back then because I really didn’t have a process, per se. I just learned the lines, and I tried to be real, and that was my inspiration on that. You know? And the character was fun! It was an undercover DEA.

  I got to do the fight scenes and a sex scene. Crazy for my first film. Albert is so great. He’s really great to work with as an actor. He wants to create a safe environment. I remember one scene where we improvised almost the entire scene. It was a blast!

Grégoire Canlorbe: Kickboxer IV is arguably the most sexualized installment in the saga. What stood behind this artistic decision?

Brad Thornton: I think Albert has always been on the edge, and I think that as for any filmmaker, the reality is that sex sells worldwide in that aspect. If you have a film that does have some sex scenes and then, has some martial arts fighting from all different types of martial arts and an underlying story that’s interesting and stuff like that—that’s all these winning combinations for any film that has a worldwide market, that can be translated into many different languages. By today’s standards, anyway, I think it’s pretty tame.

Brad Thornton in Kickboxer IV and other works

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Please tell us about your collaboration with the man who’s been bearing the Kickboxer sequels on his shoulders—Sasha Mitchell.

  Brad Thornton: Sasha is great. He was very gracious, and we had a really good time shooting Kickboxer 4. Then, I’ve seen him at other martial arts events or whatever, lately, and oh, my gosh, he’s like a mountain! That guy is so huge. I can’t believe how big he’s gotten and stuff like that. But he looks like he’s in amazing shape, and he’s always been such a great, nice guy to me.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: What about Kamel Krifa, who portrays Tong Po in Kickboxer IV?

  Brad Thornton: Kamel is a great guy, been a friend of mine since KB4. We’ve had lunches and coffees and chats together. I love him. He’s like a brother. When he comes to town—I haven’t seen him in a couple of years, but we’re always talking about what we could do next—that kind of thing. He’s a go-getter. He’s a great martial artist.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Besides Kickboxer IV, another martial-arts movie in which you acted is The Sensei. How do you feel it enriches the genre?

  Brad Thornton: I love The Sensei. It’s when I first met Ron Balicki and Diana Lee Inosanto—Bruce Lee’s goddaughter—they came to me to help with the production, legal and stuff like that. Then, one thing led to another, and I got to audition, and they realized I was an actor, and we’ve been friends and family ever since. I trained and learned things from Ron as a guru, martial arts wise. And Diana, she’s just really an amazing soul. Love her. What I really loved about The Sensei was it was at a time where it put into the conversation AIDS, sexual preference and a lot of other things that are not necessarily ever brought up in the martial arts films. And it has a unique twist about it with regards to The Sensei and people’s misconceptions of others and their judgments on others. I believe that it also teaches some of the spirituality aspects of martial arts, what that brings, as well. And it’s a great storyline. It’s got action. It really was a great little film, I think, that really touched a lot of people.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: You had the opportunity to act alongside legendary actor David Carradine [Bill in Quentin Tarantino’s Kill Bill diptych] in a movie adaptation of Shakespeare’s Richard III. Sounds thrilling.

  Brad Thornton: That was a crazy, fun film. It was Shakespeare in modern day. Right off the bat, I got to say, the best thing about that film is that I met my wife on that film. But we weren’t together then, and we didn’t get together for years after that, but that’s why I first met her. The film was a fun Shakespearean film. I got the opportunity to work with some iconic actors at the time. I had a scene with David Carradine and María Conchita Alonso and Anne Jeffreys, all these really iconic actors that it was just an honor to be in their presence. And then, the word Shakespeare and stuff like that, it was my first real opportunity to do that, and that was a challenge. But I think that also, as my journey as an actor, really, I love Shakespeare now. I love doing Hamlet and Hamlet‘s advice to players and all of these things.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Let’s talk about your passion for motorcycle. How did the latter take shape? Do you have some favorite road movie?

  Brad Thornton: I love motorcycles. I started riding motorcycles when I was a kid before I learned how to drive a car, a dirt bike, or whatnot. I’ve got a funny story about that, actually. I was living in Tennessee at the time, and I did this one commercial for the Army for motorcycle safety. This was near Fort Campbell where the Special Forces are stationed. It was actually this Green Beret’s jet bike that I was on. We all met at this park area where it had a little trail and stuff like that. It was a Ducati bike, and it’s got some power to it. I wanted to go test it out a little bit to just feel the response and everything else. I asked them, I said, “Listen, before we start shooting can I take it for a spin to get the feel of it?”—cause they’re still doing prep. The director is getting the shot all set up and stuff like that. Army guys are there, Special Forces guy has got his bike, He says, “Yeah, go right ahead.” So, I hop on the bike and I’m like vroom, vroom, vroom—I come around this one corner and I downshift hard and the shifter pedal breaks, snaps. Just snaps. I mean, it’s really hard metal. I’ve ridden a bike for a long time and this was a first. I don’t know what the heck happened, but it snapped, and right at the apex of this turn like this.

 I’m thinking, “Oh my God! I broke the bike. We haven’t even shot the commercial, yet, they’re going to kill me!” And it’s a Green Beret guy, he’s really going to kill me. So, I come back around like this and I tried to put it in neutral, pulled clutch and stuff, and I wheel it all in there, and I’m like, “Oh, my God! I just broke the shifter pedal.” The guy didn’t look that surprised. He tells me it had broke before and then goes to fix it with a Swiffer broom handle, duct tape and wire.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you react to that scene in Ridley Scott’s Black Rain with a gang of yakuzas perpetrating a beheading while riding their motorcycles?

  On another note, I believe Ridley Scott’s esthetics in his movies, his work on images, has been quite influential on the esthetics of Albert Pyun. Especially when it comes to Pyun’s Nemesis, the visual aspect of which is quite reminiscent of Blade Runner. You know, Pyun may work with low budgets; but he always manages to deliver refined, astonishing, visuals.

  Brad Thornton: I love Black Rain. I had an amazing time living in Japan on and off for about a year and a half, about three months, three-four months each time. Such great times! And yes, Albert Pyun is definitely able to make something out of nothing.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Do you have some favorite road or landscape for your motorcycle journeys?

  Brad Thornton: I love going down Topanga Canyon around here. It’s like a canyon and stuff like that. Then, it basically drops you off at the Pacific Coast Highway, which is right next to the beach. Then, you can see the ocean as you drive on up, and the wind is cool and stuff like that. It’s probably one of my favorite places to ride.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: You worked as a bodyguard for Arnold Schwarzenegger and his family. How is the man behind the legend?

  Brad Thornton: Arnold and family are amazing, it was an honor and a pleasure to work with them. They were so gracious and sweet to me the whole time I worked with them. Everybody really was. It was a lot of fun. I got a lot of funny stories about that. I’ll tell you this one story. I don’t know if they still have it, but they had this potbelly pig named Bacon. I had one of the night shifts. It was about 2.30, 3 o’clock in the morning, and I’m in the guard shack right by the house and I start to smell smoke. So, I went outside and I come around this corner, and Bacon is in the middle of his little house, and the house’s flames are on fire, like 3 feet in the air. So, I yell to get Bacon out. The pig wouldn’t come out. I run back, grab the fire extinguisher, come back out. The pig is still just standing there in the middle of his house burning down. Bacon was actually going to become bacon. I squirted in the fire extinguisher, which scared Bacon to finally come out. What had happened was that they had put this light in there to keep Bacon warm. But the wire had basically been in a situation where every time they opened and shut the top, it hit the wire and eventually, it broke through and created like a short.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: The Cursed is a peak in your career both as an actor and a producer. How did you get involved with the project? How do you remember the filming?

  Brad Thornton: That’s one of the special films, too, The Cursed. You know, one of my near and dear friends, Phil Melfi, he—rest his soul—passed away a few months after we finished everything. He had called me up out of blue and said, “Hey, I got this screenplay written by Devin Watson”—who’s his friend there, in Tennessee, which is a great place to shoot—“Let’s go make a movie. I got the budget.” And off we went! We got everybody together and got to Tennessee and shot this little film in the town of McMinnville, Tennessee. Louis Mandylor was there, a dear friend of mine, now. It was just such a fun time, and people in McMinnville were all really amazing and very gracious. Ron Balicki worked on it with me as stunt coordinator, Mike Jones was our fire guy. A funny story we had this one shot where we were going to light Ron on fire. He was in his freezing cold gel soaked undergarments and was already shivering. Basically, once you put it on, you really want to get lit on fire soon after that or you’ll get hypothermia.

  So, Ron gets all this stuff on, gets the monster costume on, he gets on out there like that, and he’s standing in the middle of the barn. Then, Louis and I are standing a bit away from hims ready to shoot the last scene of the monster getting set on fire. We’re supposed to throw these Molotov cocktail cocktails on the monster, and he lights up. Problem is that the lighter we had got soaked in that gel. So, we got cameras rolling and we’re trying to light the thing on fire. Thankfully some of the smokers in the group had back up. Ron was really ready to get set ablaze at that point. It’s also the first time I did a basic jerk pulley stunt, I think that’s what they call it, where the monster slaps me and I fly in the air. I love doing stunts so I was like a kid in a candy store! The Cursed really, though, most importantly, I made a lot of dear friends. And if it wasn’t for Phil Melfi, we would have never made that film. It’s basically his film.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Your favorite boogeyman in horror movies.

  Brad Thornton: Probably Jason because I met Douglas Tait, who played Jason. Cool guy, And tall!

  Grégoire Canlorbe: While Rich in Spirit (which you directed) is a documentary about homelessness, the Prey series, one of your feats of arms as a producer, tells the fate of a homeless veteran struggling with his inner demons. Why is homelessness a topic so meaningful to you?

  Brad Thornton: I think—like the title in the documentary suggests—which neither one of those ever got distributed or anything like that, unfortunately—but Rich in Spirit: we’re all rich in spirit. I’ve always believed that we are all spirit. And being out there and being homeless, it just has always broken my heart in a way that I felt like I wanted to put a voice out there, especially those who are veterans who’ve served the country and who end up homeless, or just help anyone in general. I shot a lot of footage. I went out and I slept in homeless camps. These homeless people were very gracious to me to allow me to come into their inner communities and talk and stuff like that. This was in Nashville. One of the great places I found there was Room in The Inn, a homeless transitional situation where it’s got three different stages. Homelessness in general is a very sad thing.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you assess those movies that are Ted Kotcheff’s First Blood (Rambo) and Clint Eastwood’s American Sniper, which more or less lie in the same vein as Prey?

  Brad Thornton: Those are two favorite movies of mine. They’re action films, and they have great topics underlying the action and stuff like that. I love them, they’re cool.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: What do you think of this road movie that is Clint Eastwood’s last movie (as it stands), Cry Macho?

  Brad Thornton: Cry Macho, I think it’s interesting. For me, Clint Eastwood is someone who is iconic. I’ve loved his movies ever since I started watching all the spaghetti westerns or whatever that they call them. I also love that on his sets when he’s directing that he’s really a calm director. So I’ve heard, haven’t worked with him yet! 

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How did it feel to explore the SF-genre on the occasion of your acting in Interstellar Civil War?

  Brad Thornton: I think sci-fi in general—the main difference on that film was that the majority of it was shot on a green screen. That was really great. It was like an exercise in sensory memory. You really have to imagine what’s out there and what you’re talking to and what you’re seeing and where you’re at and all that stuff. Even in a sense, remember, we’re supposed to be in this desert after this time and stuff like that. So, you really have to feel the heat beating up on you and the desert and stuff, your face, everything, the sand gets everywhere, you just start to feel gritty, and you got to allow yourself to have some time to just get into that space. When you’re looking out, when you’re looking at this little piece of gaffer’s tape for an eyeline, that piece of gaffer’s tape is actually an object or something else or whatever that’s in the scene, which you have to react to. It was fun. Star Wars is one of my favorites!

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Would you be ready to act in a new Star Wars movie or TV-series?

  Brad Thornton: Yes, I would love to. My friend Diana Lee Inosanto was in the Boba Fett thing, and I love it. I love Star Wars. I was a kid playing with little Star Wars dudes or whatever with my cousin Scott Thornton, and it was just a lot of fun. Yeah, I would jump at the chance to audition for anything in the Star Wars community or world or whatever. If there’s any casting out there listening, please, call my agent, Eddie Culbertson.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: What about a Kickboxer–Star Wars crossover directed by Pyun in which a Force-sensitive Tong Po would have a fight with Darth Vader? Would you like to be part of such adventure?

  Brad Thornton: I think so. I think Lando goes to space—yeah, sure, why not? I do think that we did have some fun scenes in Interstellar and stuff like that dealt with like, basic Eskrima, martial arts, which was the laser blade fights and stuff like that. There’s kicks and punches all throughout. There’s soon to be a release date—I’m not sure what that date is, but I don’t think it’s yet released, so, hopefully, it will be soon.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Thank you for your time. Please feel free to add anything.

  Brad Thornton: Thank you. Actually, my latest work was on Fox’s new hit TV show The Cleaning Lady. Melissa Carter and Miranda Kwok’s show that was directed by Milan Cheylov, and Jeff Cadiente was the stunt coordinator. It really was just such a fun experience. Everyone working on that show is amazing! I was able to play Travis, a guns running bad guy in the finale of the first season. I love it when roles combine acting with stunts! Milan had told me, “We’re going to get a big death for you!” and it was! Put a gatorback on and flung mysef into the air. My kind of fun!

  I guess that’s it. I appreciate your thoughtful questions and your interview. Thank you!

That conversation was originally published in Bulletproof Action, in December 2022

A conversation with Jean-Pierre Valère, for The Postil Magazine

A conversation with Jean-Pierre Valère, for The Postil Magazine

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Jean-Pierre Valère, whose real name is Jean-Pierre van Lerberghe, is a Belgian actor, weightlifting champion, and musician. He stars in Moloss (originally known as Lopak L’Envoûteur, Lopak the Enchanter), which premiered at the Brussels International Fantastic Film Festival, on August 31, 2022. Moloss is co-directed by Abdelkrim Qissi and Abel Ernest Tembo.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Are you happy with the screening of Moloss at the BIFFF [Brussels International Fantastic Film Festival]?

Jean-Pierre Valère: Yes, very happy. I had the pleasure of meeting an excellent journalist in you, and I also got to meet the whole team of the film, so many wonderfully talented actors. It was like a crowning for us, in such magnificent setting, on the occasion of the great return of BIFFF after this devastating epidemic.

Grégoire Canlorbe: What was the shoot like?

Jean-Pierre Valère: It was an honor to film alongside friends, Abel Ernest Tembo and Abdelkrim Qissi. Ernest is remarkable as a director cameraman. I saw firsthand his great art. Restrained, unassuming, he knows how to direct his actors without seeming to direct them. The staging subtly and brilliantly alternates the intimate with the explosive. Our two friends Abdelkrim and Ernest, really, know how to hit all the right notes in a perfect symphony of collaboration.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Did you like playing your character in the film?

Jean-Pierre Valère: I am so grateful for the chance Ernest and Abdelkrim gave me to play this offbeat role—offbeat in just the right way. The bits of humor that the character brings, like when he tries to reassure Moloss, whose best friend he is, are a contrast to the many scenes of violence and the almost constant feeling of dread found in the film. It was a shooting like no other, an adventure like I had never experienced before, which I had the chance to share with all these heroes that are the other actors of the film, all of them remarkable. I hope that a sequel will be made. Terminator did it successfully, why not Moloss?

Jean-Pierre Valère (on the right) and Grégoire Canlorbe (on the left)

[Spoiler alert! Skip this question and its answer about the film for those who don’t want to know about a crucial revelation]

Grégoire Canlorbe: A rather late revelation in the film is that your character, up till then, had been under the yoke of a hypnotic substance. How did you get into the skin of a character subject to such a chemical “spell?”

Jean-Pierre Valère: I like subtle acting, whether I’m playing bastards (as in the RTL-TVI series Affaires de Famille) or funny and nice characters (as in Moloss). Many humorists, if they want to be funny, must be good comedians first and foremost. I tried to play my character in Moloss with nuance—to bring out the state of mind he is in by playing him, paradoxically, as if nothing had happened. Whether it’s the role I play in Moloss, or the role of a local “J.R.” character, a real scoundrel (I love that!) that I play in Affaires de Famille, it’s all about the look, and a sincere and natural performance.

[End of spoiler]

Grégoire Canlorbe: Looking back on your weightlifting career, what do you see?

Jean-Pierre Valère: A very weighty career, if I may say so, since I was a finalist at the Olympic Games in Mexico, Munich, and Montreal, with a silver medal at the 1970 world championships. He was very proud of his little track record, this Valère guy, who was then known by his real name, van Lerberghe.

Grégoire Canlorbe: How does the art of using your hands as a musician differ from the art of using your hands as a weightlifter?

Jean-Pierre Valère: Excellent question. As you know, I have been in love with music—especially piano and guitar—since I was a child. As someone who likes to play classical improvisation, I was surprised to find out that weightlifting does not alter (no pun intended) the flexibility of the fingers when playing musical instruments; these are two reflex actions of the finger muscles that are quite specific, each in its own way. I was afraid that I would not be able to play the guitar or the piano properly after a training session, but I was amazed to discover that weightlifting and music are perfectly compatible disciplines; and that the improvement of the first one does not compromise the improvement of the second, provided, of course, that weightlifting is not too time-consuming to take away time from music. But I think that an artist, whoever he or she may be, should cultivate versatility as much as these meager twenty-four hours a day allow.

Grégoire Canlorbe: You played the main role in the Belgian TV-drama, Affaires de Famille (a total of 105 episodes, broadcast since 1996). What are your favorite TV-dramas?

Jean-Pierre Valère: My interpretation of Didier Barillot in Affaires de Famille, with the influence of Dallas’ J.R., is one of the greatest satisfactions of my acting career, as is my recent interpretation of Moloss’ best friend. I hope to have the chance to play other roles of the same quality in the near future. I used to enjoy the series Dallas, but I don’t watch any series nowadays.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Among the contemporary musicians, are some particularly dear to your heart as a music lover?

Jean-Pierre Valère: Lang Lang, an extraordinary person and a virtuoso pianist capable of an infinite number of nuances; Khatia Buniatishvili, whose physical beauty is matched only by her sublime piano playing. But above all, the Beatles—under an apparent lightness, the most inspired and diversified geniuses of the 20th century!

Grégoire Canlorbe: Jean-Claude Van Damme alone is nicknamed “The Muscles from Brussels,” even though such a qualification fits you just as well, if not more. What do you make of that?

Jean-Pierre Valère: The reason is simple—Jean-Claude is world famous. Here’s an interesting anecdote in that regard. We were both training at the Centre National des Sports in Brussels, me in weightlifting, him in karate. One evening when we were the last two in the weightlifting room and were doing our abs side by side, he told me about his plans to go to America and make a career in cinema. As I didn’t want to break his momentum, I said it was a good idea, never believing for a second that anything would ever come of it, considering the competition he would have to face. But we know what happened. I called him one day. He was in London. I hadn’t seen him in, say, twenty years; but he was still as nice and friendly as ever, just surprised to hear from me.

Grégoire Canlorbe: What do you remember about Vasily Alekseyev?

Jean-Pierre Valère: Fortunately for me, we were not in the same category. He was classified as a super heavyweight, and I was classified as a light heavyweight. He weighed in at one hundred and seventy kilos, and I weighed in at less than ninety kilos. In Belgium, weightlifting was at that time a despised sport, so that everyone had to train alone in his cellar, without any real professional supervision. The Russians were pros, and we were amateurs, so to speak. That’s why I’m proud to be vice world champion!

Grégoire Canlorbe: So, tell us about your friendship with heavyweight Serge Reding.

Jean-Pierre Valère: A young man of incredible kindness! His shyness played tricks on him in competitions. He was as gifted as Vasily Alekseyev, if not more so, but he let himself be impressed by the Russian champion, who was not afraid of anything and who went through some formidable psychological training. When we both went to compete all over the world, it was always a wonderful adventure that we would remember for the rest of our lives; an initiatory journey to discover different civilizations. There is always something to learn and something to gain from meeting others—the calmness of New Yorkers in traffic, for example, or the eternal smile of the poorest of the poor.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Are you still weightlifting?

Jean-Pierre Valère: Now, I just do “maintenance of the machinery,” as they say. I go to a gym two or three times a week, with the idea of maintaining, as they say, the locomotor system and to prevent an inevitable loss of strength as one gets older. It is important to be able to keep one’s physical independence until the end. And, while we are at it, to maintain a well-balanced, or at least a presentable, body.

Grégoire Canlorbe: You are a songwriter, with a particular penchant for love songs if I am not mistaken.

Jean-Pierre Valère: My songs are not well known, but that doesn’t take away from the pleasure I take in writing them. I am a literary person above all else; some people ironically say that I speak like a book. I try, in any case, to bring a particular care to the choice of words, and to distil nuance, even humor.

Grégoire Canlorbe: So, tell us about your favorite songs.

Jean-Pierre Valère: I have a special affection for the Beatles’ songs, as they are practically the coming together of Mozart, Beethoven, Gershwin and rock. That four such talented musicians, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr, and George Harrison, could team up is a unique event in the history of music! Other songs that blow me away every time I listen to them are the Eagles’ “Hotel California,” or Procol Harum’s “A Whiter Shade of Pale” (a wickedly slow song, as they used to say back then, with infinite poetry!); and Jean-Louis Aubert’s “Les Plages” (a wonder of nostalgia).

Grégoire Canlorbe: By your own admission, you are a “literary man.” Who are your favorite French language writers?

Jean-Pierre Valère: I must confess that I read relatively little, suffering from a problem with the eyes that, when too active, get tired very quickly. The little I have been taught about French and Greek philosophers has been a fundamental background for me. Victor Hugo, Alfred de Vigny, or Montaigne I do particularly like. But the one I really like and prefer is Chamfort (not the singer, the other one!), for that art of his which can express a strong idea in a short sentence. I invite everyone to read Chamfort’s Maximes et Pensées, which contains true philosophy, and whose discovery in my adolescence, a time when I was precisely in need of philosophy, was formative for me.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Thank you for your time. Is there anything you would like to add or expand?

Jean-Pierre Valère: “The most lost of all days is the one in which one has not laughed,” wrote Chamfort. I would humbly add that the worst periods in life are those when one finds oneself without the slightest project, which throws one into the darkest depression. One project that is occupying me at the moment is a book that I plan to call, modestly, A Guide to the Universe, a title that I hope will be catchy. I hope to have time to finish it (which brings us back to a subject we discussed earlier—the little time we have each day). I plan to put my thoughts on things in it, and I have written about 20 pages so far. I have a few songs with a touch of humor and irony that I would like to record in the studio, with guitar accompaniment by myself. A lot of work to do, but you know how versatility is an ideal that drives me.

I was happy to meet you. You are considerate in your interviews and let your interviewee express himself—which is so rare that it needs to be highlighted.

That conversation was originally published in The Postil Magazine‘s November 2022 issue

A conversation with Sheldon Lettich, for The Postil Magazine

A conversation with Sheldon Lettich, for The Postil Magazine

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Sheldon Lettich is an American screenwriter, film director, and producer. He is notably known for his work in the action film genre—and his collaborations with Jean-Claude Van Damme, Sylvester Stallone, Mark Dacascos, Dolph Lundgren, and Daniel Bernhardt. Besides co-writing Bloodsport and Rambo III, Sheldon Lettich directed and co-wrote Lionheart, Double Impact, and Only the Strong.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: What is the situation with regard to your long-established movie-project about Vietnam?

  Sheldon Lettich: Well, I’ve written a lot of scripts about Vietnam, but none of them has been made. I wrote a script called Firebase. And it was kind of like that movie called Zulu. It was kind of like that. Basically, a small group of Americans on a hilltop firebase, and they got attacked by a huge number of North Vietnamese and Viet Cong. That was the screenplay I wrote a number of years ago. And Sylvester Stallone read the screenplay, and he liked it. And that’s how I ended up working with him on Rambo III, because he had read that screenplay. I’ve written a few other Vietnam screenplays, but none of them has gotten made, yet.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: You collaborated with Sylvester Stallone on Rambo III. How did your team come up with the idea of the tank-versus-helicopter scene? Or the idea of colonel Trautman’s “In your ass!” line?

  Sheldon Lettich: The tank-versus-helicopter scene wasn’t my idea, that was Stallone’s idea. And I thought it was not a plausible idea, but it seemed to work. You liked it, right? A helicopter versus a tank just makes no kind of sense at all because a tank is not designed to shoot at something moving fast like an airplane. A tank versus an airplane or a helicopter makes no kind of sense at all. You’d have to be very lucky. It takes some time to aim that cannon on a tank. So for a tank versus a helicopter, I didn’t believe it, but it seemed to work. There we are, it was Sly’s idea. As for colonel Trautman’s line in the interrogation scene, that was Stallone’s idea as well. That wasn’t mine.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: What kind of movie could be done about the withdrawal of the US troops from Afghanistan? Perhaps a new Rambo installment, in which Stallone would rescue a group of hostages once again abandoned in Afghanistan and, in the process, decapitate his former Taliban allies turned into despots of the region?

  Sheldon Lettich: I don’t see a good action movie coming out of that because everything about that was very disappointing. That really shouldn’t have happened the way that it happened. I don’t think anybody would want to see a movie about that. And Stallone is in his 70s, now. He’s a little old to go back into Afghanistan. And I think he’s had his—I think Rambo has had—his Afghanistan adventure and doesn’t really need another one. So I don’t see that happening at all. I’m 70 years old. Stallone’s even older than me. I don’t know, he’s like 72. I don’t think he’ll want to do some crazy action movie where he’s running around firing a gun and killing all kinds of Afghans. It’s just not going to happen again.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Jean-Claude Van Damme served as an editor on Bloodsport, which you co-wrote. How much did he change the story with respect to the original screenplay?

  Sheldon Lettich: The first cut was very bad, so Jean-Claude got involved. And he basically recut the fight scenes because he was involved with those fight scenes. He knew how the fight scenes should work. And there was another editor that Cannon brought in to recut the movie and to restructure it. And so they fixed it up. But Jean-Claude basically worked on the fight scenes, and he made those work really good. In the meanwhile, they got some other writers involved who made some changes. Most of the changes, I thought, were very good, actually. What I mostly did with Bloodsport is I came up with the idea. I structured it. I came up with the three-act structure where the beginning is that everybody’s getting ready to go to the fight. The middle is the tournament, and the movie ends after Gong Li is defeated and Jean-Claude goes home. So, that’s the structure that I came up with.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Before Bloodsport, had you been involved with Karate Tiger?

  Sheldon Lettich: No, I had nothing to do with that. That’s the first movie that I saw Jean-Claude in, here in the US. It was called No Retreat, No Surrender. And that was the movie—when we were looking for an actor for Bloodsport, that movie came out in theaters. It was playing in theaters here, in Los Angeles so the producer, Mark DiSalle, told us, “We found this new actor, Jean-Claude Van Damme. Go see his movies in the theaters, right now.” And that was No Retreat, No Surrender. And we were very impressed with him. And that’s pretty much—that helped him solidify the role in Bloodsport.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: After Bloodsport, did you get involved in Kickboxer?

  Sheldon Lettich: Well, I was involved just in that Kickboxer was the project that Mark DiSalle approached me with. When I first met Mark, he was looking for a writer, and he had an idea for a martial arts movie called Kickboxer. And so, he pitched me the idea, and I thought I had a better idea, which was Bloodsport. Bloodsport had not been written, but I’d been talking with Frank Dux about his experiences. Turned out that they weren’t real experiences: he had made all that stuff up.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Please tell us about your partnership with Jean-Claude Van Damme in writing Full Contact, which is known as Lionheart in the US if I’m not mistaken.

  Sheldon Lettich: Yes, Lionheart. Actually, I got together with Jean-Claude and he came up with the basic idea. That was his idea. It was called the Wrong Bet, at first. We sat down in a coffee shop, one night on Sunset Boulevard to talk about it. We were in that coffee shop for about three hours, and the manager wanted us to leave because we were taking up—it was kind of empty, but he still wanted us out of there. He thought we were there for too long. And we told him to leave us alone. “We’re working on something, right now.” And then, he called the cops. So actually, we had some sheriff’s deputies come in there and tell us to leave. But in those three hours, we came up with the basic story line for Lionheart. But it was Jean-Claude’s original idea, that whole thing about—I think I came up with the Foreign Legion idea, but he came up with that idea about his sister-in-law, and she’s got a little daughter, and he has to fight in order to make money to take care of them. That was Jean-Claude’s.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: The fight between JCVD and Bolo Yeung at the end of Double Impact is quite an epic moment. How was it shot?

  Sheldon Lettich: Actually, it was shot in two different locations because we shot part of it in Hong Kong. I’m just trying to think about. We were on a ship in Hong Kong. No, the exterior of the ship was in Hong Kong, the interior of the ship was in Los Angeles. That was in San Pedro. And so, we actually shot on this ship, and then we looked at the footage later. We were kind of rushed that day. We didn’t have enough time to really do it right. And so we had a set built in Santa Clarita, also in Los Angeles, to shoot some additional shots. So it was basically like—it looks like it’s all done at the same time, but it was actually done in two different locations at two different times. We cut it all together, and it looked really great.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Why did JCVD never act with Bolo Yeung again after Bloodsport and Double Impact? After all, three is a magic number as they say.

  Sheldon Lettich: Well, he made two movies with Bolo. Bloodsport has Bolo, and Double Impact has Bolo. It’s hard to just keep using the same villain over and over again.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Are you concerned for the future of the cinema of Hong Kong as the Chinese Communist Party will be extending its grip on the city?

  Sheldon Lettich: I’m not an expert on that, but obviously, we’re not going to see Hong Kong movies like the old ones. It’s all going to change now because the Chinese have taken over. So there are certain things you can say, certain things you can’t say. The Chinese government controls whatever is going on in Hong Kong. So you’ll never see those Hong Kong movies like we saw before, the Jackie Chan’s. Oh, Jackie Chan, of course, is doing movies in China, also. But they’re not going to be quite the same as those John Woo movies. I don’t think he’ll be able to make movies anymore in Hong Kong with corrupt police officers. Basically, the way that the Chinese government sees it, there are no corrupt police officers in China. There are no gangsters in China. So, basically, everything has to change. They’re up to do a lot of historical stuff. So, you’re probably not going to see any contemporary stories like in those Hong Kong movies where you’ve got good cops, bad cops, gangsters, all kinds of stuff like that. I think that’s going away. And all they’re going to see out of Hong Kong and China is stuff that takes place hundreds of years ago in earlier eras in China, but not contemporary. Because contemporary means that you’ve got to have good guys and bad guys. And in China, they want everybody to believe that China is a perfect country. There are no gangsters, there are no corrupt cops. So everything is wonderful in China, which means you can’t have much drama for a contemporary movie. So, that era—the era of the John Woo movies and Ringo Lam and all of that—that’s pretty much over, for now.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Please tell us about The Hard Corps, starring Jean-Claude Van Damme and Vivica A. Fox. How did such great movie with such great cast end up as a DTV?

  Sheldon Lettich: Well, we were hoping it was going to go to theaters. And the problem was that the producers just didn’t want to spend the money to get other actors that we needed to make it a theatrical movie. Because originally, it was supposed to be Jean-Claude and Wesley Snipes. So the boxer was supposed to be played either by Wesley Snipes or Cuba Gooding, which would have made it a much bigger movie. Basically, they said, “We’ve got Jean-Claude Van Damme. We’re paying him a lot. If we get Wesley Snipes, we’ll have to pay Wesley Snipes the same amount of money we’re paying Jean-Claude, and that’s going to make the budget too big.” Now, in my opinion, it would have helped the movie. We would have had a bigger name in there. We would have had three big names. We would have had Jean-Claude, Wesley Snipes and Vivica A. Fox. And I think for sure, it would have been a theatrical movie. And that’s why it didn’t go theatrical because we just didn’t have the money we needed to get the right cast.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: I’d like to hear you about The Order, which easily ranks among your best collaborations with JCVD. The scene in which Van Damme is dressed as a Hassidic Jew is just exceptional.

  Sheldon Lettich: I made another movie in Israel—I did a movie there with Dolph Lundgren, The Last Patrol. So I got to know Israel pretty well. The cops trying to catch Van Damme, it was basically my idea. But I didn’t write the original script for The Order. It was written by this guy, Les Weldon. I wanted to make it more like an old Hitchcock movie. Hitchcock made a movie called North By Northwest and another one called The Man Who Knew Too Much. And that’s what I wanted to do with The Order.You’ve got the bad guys and the cops all after Jean-Claude. So, basically, he’s in trouble with everybody. And that’s how all those Hitchcock movies worked. I rewatched North By Northwest just recently. It was on TV. And I realized there were a lot of ideas that I took from North By Northwest. And I even forgot that I took the ideas, like this one scene in North By Northwest with Cary Grant. He’s trying to disguise himself, so he puts on some dark sunglasses. I did the exact same thing in The Order. We got the cops looking for Jean-Claude, and he’s putting dark sunglasses on to disguise himself. So that’s the kind of movie it was supposed to be. And Hitchcock put a lot of humor into those movies, too, and I put a lot of humor into The Order.

  There was a Jean-Paul Belmondo movie called The Man from Rio. It was in the 1960s. I saw it in the theater. And so I wanted to make it a little bit like that. The same thing where everybody is chasing our hero. The cops and the bad guys were all after him. And then, there was another movie I saw. It was a French movie. So those two French movies, right there. It was called The Mad Adventures of Rabbi Jacob, where some guy was anti-Semitic. He’s got the mafia after him, and he disguises himself as a Hasidic Jew. And then, the bad guys and the cops are all chasing him. So that’s another part of that idea that I had. And then, just being in Jerusalem and just seeing these guys walking around, I just thought that would be a good disguise for Jean-Claude to have if he was trying to get away from the cops. So that was what pretty much led to that. And I really wasn’t sure if Jean-Claude would go for it, if he would actually do that. And he did. He totally went for it. He put the beard on and everything, and that’s my favorite sequence in the entire movie. I really love the way that whole sequence turned out. So that’s my favorite part of The Order.

  Our producer was Avi Lerner. And one thing Avi told me before we did the movie, he said, “l want an action scene every 10 minutes. Lots of action.” And he paid for it, too. They had the budget. We did a lot of crazy stuff in The Order. We were at the airport. Can you imagine shooting—nobody else has done that in Israel, but Avi had some connections. He had a cousin who was a pilot for El Al. That was how he got that jet where Jean-Claude was trying to get around the jet and just coming through. That was Avi’s cousin in the cockpit. And then, Avi was a good friend of the Mayor of Israel at the time, Ehud Olmert. And that’s how we got permission to shoot in Jerusalem. I mean, can you imagine? We’re doing this crazy chase scene, and we’re really on the streets of Jerusalem for most of it.

  It was very hard to shoot there. It’s very crowded. And the people who live there, it’s divided between Jews and Muslims. And they disagree on just about everything, but they all love Jean-Claude Van Damme. All of them are Van Damme fans. So we had a hard time getting away from them because they’d be surrounding us and chasing after us. They were like, “Van Damme! Van Damme!” They wanted him to sign autographs. It became very difficult to shoot in Jerusalem, so we ended up building sets in Bulgaria to look like Jerusalem. Half of that chase scene was shot in Jerusalem and on the real streets, and then the other half we shot on a recreated version of Jerusalem in Bulgaria. And what I find interesting about this is that even people who are from Israel or who’ve been in Jerusalem many times don’t realize that we shot in two different places. They think that we shot the entire thing on the streets of Jerusalem. So we did a pretty good job recreating that Jerusalem look.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Before Mark Dacascos acted for Christophe Gans in Crying Freeman and Brotherhood of the Wolf, he was revealed in Only the Strong. Please tell us about your collaboration with Dacascos.

  Sheldon Lettich: Well, he had a manager named Katherine James, and she was the one that was pushing Mark. She got in touch with me, said, “You need to work with my client, Mark Dacascos. He’s going to be the next big action star.” And so I met Mark and I liked him very much. And one thing I found out about him was that he was very good with gymnastics. He was a good acrobat, and I think he’d already been studying some capoeira at the time. And that was an important part of the movie. It was all about capoeira. So Mark was willing to go to classes with this real capoeira master from Brazil. So he learned all that stuff and was very willing to do anything I asked him to do. And it ended up working out great for the movie because he was able to do so much stuff that Van Damme can’t do, for example. Like Mark was good with the gymnastics. He could do flips. He could jump in the air. Jean-Claude can’t really do that kind of stuff. He’s good with the kicks and the punching, but if he has to do something gymnastic, we generally have to get a stunt double to do it for him. And also, Jean-Claude was not good with weapons, like martial arts weapons. He can use a gun. Of course, anybody can fire a gun, but he couldn’t do like the sticks and poles and all that kind of stuff, and Mark could do all of that stuff. We realized that in the movie, we’ve got him having fights with people using sticks and everything. And with Jean-Claude we couldn’t do that.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Scott Adkins is sometimes thought to be Jean-Claude Van Damme’s spiritual heir. How do you assess his performances?

  Sheldon Lettich: I think he’s great. I met him a few years ago, and I knew he was going to do great as an action actor. And he’s been doing terrific. He’s been doing a lot of great action movies. Unfortunately, we’re in a different era, now. Had I met Scott in the 1980s, he probably would have become a much bigger star because those kinds of movies were popular back then, in the 80s and 90s. By the time Scott came on the scene, those kinds of movies were not happening, anymore. And now, it’s become superhero movies. So superhero movies have kind of taken over as far as action movies. And Scott has certainly done a number of action films, and he’s been great in them, but that’s just not the kind of movie that’s getting the big theatrical releases, nowadays, which is unfortunate.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Do you share Martin Scorsese’s, Ridley Scott’s, and Denis Villeneuve’s recently expressed reservations about Marvel movies?

  Sheldon Lettich: Well, personally, I’m a Marvel Comics fan. From a long time ago, I was reading all those comic books in the 60s when they came out. I would go down to the to the store. The day that they put the comic books on the stands, I would go down to the store and get them. So I had all the originals. I had the first Fantastic Four and the first X-Men, the first Spider-Man. I had all those. I was a big fan of Marvel comic books back then. And then, when they started making the Marvel movies, I thought the first few were really great. I loved the first Iron Man movie, for example. And the first Captain America movie, I thought that was terrific. But then, they just started getting just too big for my taste. They’re too big, too many characters. And I started losing interest in those Marvel movies. They’re well-made, but there’s a sameness to them. They have the same kind of structure. They all end up with these huge action scenes with lots of special effects, lots of CGI. And personally, CGI is great, but I prefer action films that have some real stuff going on screen where people are actually fighting. They’re not relying on CGI.

  I was a big fan of the earlier James Bond movies, the pre-CGI James Bond movie. I was a big James Bond fan for many years. But with some of these more recent ones, once they started getting into too much CGI, and I wasn’t seeing real stunts anymore, I started losing interest in those. Although the Daniel Craig ones, I think are really good. They basically made some real changes with those Daniel Craig versions. But even so, I’m just not the Bond’s fan that I used to be many years ago. And the Marvel movies, Scorsese says they’re not real movies. Well, they really are more like just an assembly line product. There’s a sameness to all of them, now. It just feels like you’re watching the same movie: lots of CGI, lots of explosions and crazy weapons, crazy flying machines. But they just don’t have the same kind of heart that they had in the earlier ones, the first few that they made.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Do you share the commonly heard criticism that Christopher Nolan’s action scenes are as much bad and poorly shot as his screenplays and concepts are astute?

  Sheldon Lettich: Christopher, I think he’s great. See, his action scenes feel fresh and original to me because he’s basically running the show. He’s coming up with these movies. He’s not recycling some comic book characters. He’s doing original movies, coming up with original action scenes. Whereas with the Marvel movies, the producers are pretty much telling—they’re hiring directors who are basically traffic cops and telling them, “This is what the movie is going to be. This is what the action scenes are going to be. And you get out there, and you just tell the actors what to do.” They just move the characters around. And with Christopher Nolan, it’s not like that. He’s basically making Christopher Nolan movies. He’s doing action scenes that are fresh and original and doing them the way he wants to do them. And I really admire him for that. And James Cameron, too. James Cameron is another example. I love the Avatar movie. I’ve watched it a number of times. The action scenes are great. Everything about Avatar is fantastic. But James Cameron, basically, he’s calling his own shots. He’s basically saying, “I want to do this movie called Avatar. These are the actors I want.” And he goes and makes the movie. And he’s got no studio executives telling him how to structure his movie, what characters are going to be in it. It’s basically his show. And that makes a big difference.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you explain that Hollywood, which used to be somewhat conservative and patriotic in the Reaganian era, has become so woke in the last few years?

  Sheldon Lettich: No, it wasn’t really conservative in the eighties. It was not Hollywood. That was Stallone. That was Stallone’s own point of view. Stallone was somewhat patriotic. He was a big supporter of Reagan, America. Reagan was, I don’t know—I wouldn’t call him a close personal friend, but he knew Reagan. He voted for him. I’m not sure if he campaigned for him, but they were very closely aligned in their politics. The rest of Hollywood was not. Stallone was kind of an outlier when it came to Hollywood. Oliver Stone, for example, has a completely different point of view. So that was Stallone and Schwarzenegger. Both of them were Republicans. Schwarzenegger even ended up being the Republican governor of California. So that was really their point of view, but that was not Hollywood. Hollywood was actually much more liberal during that period.

  And that’s why the Rambo movies got such bad reviews, too. Like Rambo III, I mean, we got a Golden Razzie Award for Worst Screenplay, Worst Movie because most of the press was very liberal. And so they were not really voting their conscience about the movie. It was all about politics. “Because Stallone is a conservative Republican, we’re going to say that his movie is shit.” But actually, Rambo III, I think, is a pretty damn good movie. I like Rambo II even better. But basically, that was not the Hollywood attitude at the time. That was Stallone, Schwarzenegger—Bruce Willis also ended up being a Republican. So a lot of these action stars had a different point of view from most people in Hollywood. Like even Van Damme, he’s very conservative. He’s not an American. I think he is an American citizen now, actually. And he was a Trump supporter. Even Stallone and Schwarzenegger were not Trump supporters but Van Damme was. We’re not talking about Hollywood in general, we’re talking about action stars who, for the most part, tended to be more conservative and lean towards the Republicans more than the Democrats.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Please tell us about this recent movie of yours whose main character is a soldier dog, Max.

  Sheldon Lettich: Well, that brought me back to Afghanistan because the beginning of the movie takes place in Afghanistan? So rather than Rambo in Afghanistan, Max was really Rambo with four legs instead of two. He was basically a Rambo character. Max, he’s a soldier in Afghanistan. He gets sent back to the States. And then, when some bad guys are threatening his family, well, then he uses all his skills to defeat the bad guys. So it was really Rambo with four legs and a tail. That was basically Max. And I got the idea for that because I got some puppies a number of years ago at the pound, and supposedly, they were German Shepherds. They were little, so it was hard to tell. So I got these two puppies, and months later, I discovered that they were not German shepherds, they were Belgian malinois. And so I did some research on Belgian malinois, and I found out that the army and the police are using these dogs because they’re the best dogs for that kind of work. So I was doing my research, and I saw that there were a couple of dog handlers that died in Afghanistan or Iraq. And then, their families asked, “Well, my son is dead, but can I have his dog? Can his dog be part of our family because that’s all we have left of him from his time in the military?” And so these families ended up adopting the dogs, and that was the basis for Max. Basically, this dog handler gets killed, his dog survives. And then, the family back in Texas wants to adopt the dog. And the dog ends up being their protector, coming to the rescue.

  Grégoire Canlorbe: Thank you for the opportunity to do this interview.

  Sheldon Lettich: You’re welcome. That’s funny, I was just exchanging text messages with Brian Thompson. And Brian is in The Order. And Brian is a real expert with swords. He was in the Conan Show at Universal Studios. So he used to work with swords all the time. He’s really good with them. And then, our stunt double for Jean-Claude in The Order was David Leitch. Well, David is also really good with weapons, so Brian and he worked out a great sword fight sequence. And David, by the way, has now gone on to be a director. He directed Deadpool 2. He did that one, I forgot the title of it, the one with Dwayne Johnson. He did this really huge movie with Dwayne Johnson [Fast & Furious Presents: Hobbs & Shaw]. And he was our double for Jean-Claude.

  So, we were supposed to have a sword fight at the end of The Order.But Jean-Claude, like I said, he’s not good with weapons. We tried doing a few things with him. He wasn’t comfortable with it. He’s comfortable with what he’s good at, with the kicks and the punches and all of that. So he said, “Guys, let’s not do this. I can’t do this scene.” And basically, Brian and David were going to do most of the scene with the swords. And we were just going to need some close ups of Jean-Claude just swinging a sword or something. And he just didn’t feel it was going to work. So we went away from that whole sequence. And it’s a bit disappointing because I thought we needed a really good sword fight at the end of The Order, but we ended up not getting it. It’s kind of a disappointing scene.

That interview was originally published in The Postil Magazine‘s March 2022 issue