Scott Adkins

A conversation with Alan Delabie, for Bulletproof Action

by Grégoire Canlorbe · Oct 3, 2023

Alan Delabie is a French director, screenwriter, actor, producer, and martial artist. A black belt in karate shotokan, he is also trained in full contact and kickboxing and won the Nunchaku European Championship. In the movie field, he is notably known for the Borrowed Time trilogy, the last installment of which he co-directed with the man who mentored him in his cinematic adventure, David Worth.

Delabie has won awards at several film festivals, including the Los Angeles Films Awards, the Los Angeles Actors Awards, as well as festivals in Istanbul, Tokyo and New York. He also received an award at the famous Gala Action Martial Arts Magazine in Atlantic City. In 2023, he played the role of a vampire in The Last Nosferatu, for which he received the award for best actor. Still the same year, he played Alex Lapierre in thriller Shepherd Code.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Please tell us about The Last Nosferatu.

Alan Delabie: I fell in love at a very young age with two movie genres: action, and horror. One of my challenges has been of directing a werewolf movie, so I wrote a werewolf screenplay. I ended up turning to a vampire movie’s project as it was too hard to find the money for a werewolf movie: at least, one that can compare favorably with Stuart Walker’s Werewolf of London and John Landis’s An American Werewolf in London.

The Last Nosferatu tells a story that has nothing to do with that in Murnau’s movie; but the Nosferatu is not some unique character, it is a type of vampire instead. There is no action in The Last Nosferatu, which is all about horror with a special emphasis put on characters development and makeup. I wanted the process of my character’s transitioning from human to vampire to be as convincing as possible, both psychologically and in terms of physical changes.

Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you assess Klaus Kinski’s vampire in Werner Herzog’s Nosferatu?

Alan Delabie: Klaus Kinski, quite a personality—truly a madman, just as much a great actor! I love his work, as well as that of his daughter, Nastassja Kinski, the panther in Paul Schrader’s Cat People. Werner Herzog’s Nosferatu and Klaus Kinski’s vampire portrayal in the latter are certainly great. I nonetheless prefer the original Nosferatu movie, which Friedrich Wilhelm Murnau’s directing—and Max Schreck’s acting and makeup—make an unsurpassable classic. The fact it is silent, and black and white, only increases the mystery and horror…

Grégoire Canlorbe: What is your assessment of contemporary horror movies?

Alan Delabie: Today many of those horror movies with spectacular visuals just forget that they should have a good screenplay. Conversely many independent horror movies have a creativeness and crafty screenplay that are counterbalancing their lack of technical, financial means. That classic that is A Nightmare on Elm Street, which frightened me while I was a child, was already made with a budget only of $1.1 million (what remains relatively low, even in the 1980s). Yet it could rely on Wes Craven’s brilliant writing and directing, not to speak of Robert Englund’s legendary interpretation. A blockbuster remake of Nosferatu, as dazzling as its CGI would be, could barely hold a candle to the 1922 movie, no more than the remake of A Nightmare on Elm Street can compare with the original Freddy movie.

Over the course of one of my stays in Los Angeles, I was surprised to notice how the house that “acted” as that of Heather Langenkamp’s character, Nancy Thompson, and the house that “acted” as that of Johnny Depp’s character, Glen Lantz, are really standing in front of each other.

Grégoire Canlorbe: It seems turning a Hollywood dream into a reality is what the “borrowed time” of your life path is being spent notably.

Alan Delabie: Living the Hollywood dream was a childhood dream, which I would never give up. I had already performed many stage demonstrations on French and Belgian television, and acted in TV movies and series like À tort ou à raison [Rightly or Wrongly], when Jalal Merhi offered me that I be part of his TV program Master of the Arts (aka Road to Hollywood). I would later write and film, and act in, my first feature, Eight Hours, a psychological thriller that would end up being projected in San Diego. Then I would start acting in a number of short movies and web series in America, and have the idea of the Borrowed Time web series. The unexpected fruit of that idea would be a movie trilogy.

You know, it is an illusion to think that you gonna become a Hollywood actor just because you proved your worth as a martial artist. A martial artist who wants to be an actor, but who is no good actor, just a good martial artist, can hardly impress Hollywood and get a role in some major production. By contrast a good, charismatic actor, if he is no martial artist, can still end up in a Marvel production in which he will have doubles carrying out all (or some of) the stunts and fights.

Assuredly a good way of challenging, proving my actor abilities was through venturing into the horror genre as I did with The Last Nosferatu, Meosha Bean’s MVB Films Halloween Horror Stories Vol II, or even with Chris Power’s Bloodslinger, a Canadian feature that is nicely interweaving horror and western.

The Last Nosferatu – makeup, and practical effects

Grégoire Canlorbe: Two cases of a filmic intertwining between horror and action that come to my mind: George Romero’s Land of the Dead, and Lucio Fulci’s Zombi 2 with its iconic shootout in the hospital…

Alan Delabie: I am an admirer of George Romero’s work, which The Walking Dead and its slowly walking zombies, who cannot get killed unless they’re shot in the head, have been massively inspired by. My favorite movies by Romero are Night of the Living Dead, and Dawn of the Dead. Land of the Dead is a good installment in Romero’s Dead series though.

You do well to mention that unofficial sequel to Night of the Living Dead that is Lucio Fulci’s Zombi 2, as Fulci is one of those brazen masters of horror who’ve left their imprint on my filmic sensibility. The scene of the hospital shootout, or that of the eye, or that of the shark, they highlight how Fulci was willing to push the limits of what can be shown onscreen. Joe D’Amato—just think of his Anthropophagus—is another of those cheeky pioneers who were afraid of nothing.

You must know that Catriona MacColl, who extensively collaborated with Lucio Fulci, acts as Franck Denard’s mother in Borrowed Time. She is my spiritual mother in the movie field actually. We did a short movie together, Mourir d’Aimer [Dying of Loving].

Grégoire Canlorbe: Speaking of Franck Denard, how did you have the idea of that character? Is he a projection of you in some other timeline?

Alan Delabie: No, Franck Denard is completely opposite of me. While I was in San Diego on a rainy, gloomy day, I decided to spend time writing and then came up with the idea of a short web series about a man who, while leaving prison and suffering from a brain tumor, establishes himself as a vigilante.

After I made a few capsules, and a friend of mine in Los Angeles, Meosha Bean, discovered those, she suggested to me that the idea should be developed into a feature. Anatomy of an Antihero: Redemption (aka Borrowed Time), with she standing as a director and me as a writer, would be launched shortly after. Although the end of Borrowed Time implied a collapsing Franck Denard, shedding tears of blood and refusing to continue to take his medications, was about to die on the beach, a producer would express interest in launching a sequel. I proposed that we work instead on a prequel dealing with Denard’s stay in prison and what happens between his release and those ulterior events related in Borrowed Time. The producer agreed, and I started writing Denard: Anatomy of an Antihero (aka Borrowed Time 2), which I would direct as well.

It was too hard to get the authorization to film in a jail, so the prequel, which I first planned to contain a large segment—half of the plot—set in a prison environment, would end up with only a few custodial scenes, all in the form of flashbacks. The success the second installment would meet on streaming platforms would arouse the launch of Borrowed Time 3: Falling Apart, which I would co-direct with David Worth. When working on Anatomy of an Antihero: Redemption, I could hardly imagine there would be any additional installment; but I now believe a trilogy is what Borrowed Time had always been destined to be.

Eric Roberts, Alan Delabie, and Merrick McCartha

Grégoire Canlorbe: Two climactic moments in the saga are respectively your fight with Abdelkrim Qissi, and the training montage featuring you alongside Mohammed Qissi.

Alan Delabie: Yes, and you can discern some inspiration from Abdel’s fight at the end of Lionheart. I somewhat regret that Abdel and I didn’t find time to rehearse our choreography as thoroughly as we should have. David, who was kind enough to check the editing of the training montage, gave me some helpful advice.

Besides Abdelkrim and Mohammed, the Borrowed Time have assuredly allowed me to collaborate with a variety of other great actors: to name but a few, Eric Roberts, Costas Mandylor, Louis Mandylor, Patrick Kilpatrick, Matthias Hues, or Bob Wall, legendary opponent of Bruce Lee.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Did those contracts you made with producers ask you to cede the copyright on Borrowed Time?

Alan Delabie: No, I could keep the copyright.

Grégoire Canlorbe: How both of you came to codirect Borrowed Time 3: Falling Apart is a high moment in that adventure that has been your mentorship by David Worth.

Alan Delabie: It’s been more than thirteen years since I’ve been in touch with David. I had the audacity to reach him, and to introduce him to the early tentative steps of my work in the movie field. Since then, indeed, he has been mentoring me, and following and assessing my modest achievements.

The first time I would meet David physically would be in 2013 in Los Angeles. At the time, he was teaching in San Francisco and doing several rounds trips between L.A. and San Francisco. When meeting we felt a time would come when we would do some movies together. A few years later, I would write Borrowed Time 3 and then submit the screenplay to David, who would see some potential in it. That is when I asked him whether he would agree to take charge of the L.A. part, while I would personally take care of the Europe part. David accepted my offer, and we would have much pleasure working together on the movie. After the filming was complete, David let me know that, whenever I would have a new project situated in L.A., he would be there to help me.

David has been checking my work since even before he codirected Borrowed Time 3. You can easily imagine how stressed I am whenever the man who directed Kickboxer and made the photo for two Clint Eastwood classics is judging my way of filming, editing, and acting. His criticism is always constructive though.

Here are two things he taught me, which I would like to convey in turn. Firstly: no matter how you edit it, if that footage you’re working on is bad, you cannot fix it. Secondly: it’s better for that footage you’re working on to have a good sound and average picture quality than have an average sound quality and good picture quality. Sound is really what gonna allow you to stand out.

David Worth (on the right), and Alan Delabie

Grégoire Canlorbe: You used to be compared to Jean-Claude Van Damme.

Alan Delabie: I indeed used to be compared to him, and to personally find inspiration in him. I am just being myself today. Jean-Claude’s charisma is unique, and unsurpassable. He has a warrior face that is cute, angelic at the same time. Whenever he acts as a dark character, he doesn’t shine really. JCVD is clearly at his best when he acts as a light-hearted, combative character, one who may go through sadness and anger, but in all circumstances remains cheerful and gentle and never stops fighting. It is something David Worth could capture beautifully.

Grégoire Canlorbe: A contemporary horror movie that was made from a modest budget is Damien Leone’s Terrifier. The latter and its sequel, Terrifier 2, were respectively made from $35 000 and $250 000. Both movies are great, and have been successful financially and in terms of buzz. Do you believe an independent action movie can be as fortunate nowadays?

Alan Delabie: Two remarkably well chosen examples. Damien Leone has managed to create a clown character who is truly terrifying and catchy, and who rivals with Stephen King’s It. I prefer the first Terrifier installment, which I find to be more effective and original.

Yes, an independent action movie can be just as “fortunate,” both “financially and in terms of buzz,” but it is harder. You must know that, nowadays, an independent action movie with a budget exceeding $300 000 is never gonna be able to recoup its costs most likely. It is something I learnt through Don “The Dragon” Wilson, who is accustomed to acting in action movies with a budget situated between $300 000 and $500 000. The reason is situated at the marketing level. An independent action movie just cannot compete with all those action blockbusters that can put dozens of millions of dollars into their communication and advertising.

True, your movie may still create a buzz with a modest marketing budget (or even no marketing budget at all), but a buzz is something way easier to arouse with a horror independent movie than it is with an action independent movie. Winnie-the-Pooh: Blood and Honey had a fun, original concept that caused a sensation. Anyway all independent movies, when it comes to breaking even, face a same problem at the level of distribution. Given the public at large is increasingly relinquishing both the movie theaters and physical supports, it is increasingly unlikely for an independent movie to be offered a release other than just on a streaming platform. Yet that type of release is less rentable.

Don « The Dragon » Wilson and Alan Delabie

Grégoire Canlorbe: You’re acting as a French professional killer, Alex Lapierre, in Shepherd Code. It seems you’re inscribing yourself in the lineage of Alain Delon in Jean-Pierre Melville’s Le Samouraï…

Alan Delabie: Alain Delon with his stern face and cold, stoic interpretation was perfect as Jeff Costello. I would love to meet him someday. To me, he is a lion, so are Jean-Paul Belmondo, Lino Ventura, Jean Gabin, and Michel Constantin. Alex Lapierre is a role that would fit Van Damme better than Delon though.

Grégoire Canlorbe: How was the Shepherd Code project born? What is its spirit?

Alan Delabie: At first, while there were three of us to be willing to invest into a new movie project, I wanted to direct a sequel to The Last Nosferatu. I planned my character to be chased by an equivalent of Van Helsing, whom I wanted to be played by Silvio Lumac. As my makeup artist wasn’t available at the time, I turned to another synopsis of mine, one about a hired killer who wants to make his last mission before retiring.

I developed a screenplay from that synopsis, and then had the project launched with Don Wilson cast as the backer of my character’s last mission and David Worth attached to the project as an assistant producer. I also cast Silvio Lumac as a rival assassin, whose relationship with Alex Lapierre is similar to that Antonio Banderas’s character is having with Sylvester Stallone’s character in Richard Donner’s Assassins. I codirected Shepherd Code with Lh Chambat, who had edited The Last Nosferatu. We shot in L.A., Bristol, Lisbon, and Paris.

Shepherd Code isn’t only about suspense and action. The introspection Lapierre finds himself proceeding with as he is carrying out what is supposed to be his last mission, the way he becomes aware of the source of his troubles, it is something I also wanted to stand at the core of Shepherd Code.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Are there a few scenes of Shepherd Code you would like to tease?

Alan Delabie: Yes, one in the desert with a white car whose trunk is being opened. Another one I would like to tease features two characters—the one played by Michael Morris and mine—shooting at the same time. Both scenes clearly have a Tarantino vibe. There is still another scene I would like to tease, which features David Worth doing a cool cameo.

Michael Morris, and Alan Delabie – Shepherd Code extract

Grégoire Canlorbe: Both Shepherd Code and Borrowed Time 3 had parts shot in Los Angeles. L.A. is reportedly a good place for filming, with great urban landscape for action.

Alan Delabie: Honestly L.A. is a nightmare for movies. You cannot shoot there without any license. If you start filming in the street without any delivered authorization, you soon end up getting stopped by the police and finding yourself with a fine. We were lucky that we could rent locations for the filming in L.A.; but, frankly, the urban landscape isn’t especially nice there.

Most of those scenes featuring a shootout in the streets of L.A. are actually filmed in a studio nowadays. That is because insecurity and violence are now reigning in L.A., and you can be easily mugged or have your equipment stolen whenever you’re filming there. It happened on Shepherd Code’s set. Our boom operator had his boom mic stolen just in front of us, but we could get it back fortunately. It is no wonder that many companies delocalized their filmings from L.A. to Atlanta. Anyway we could capture some strong visuals in L.A., especially that scene on a building’s roof. What we shot in the desert is just as impressive.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Does the way Paris was shot in John Wick 4 resonate with you?

Alan Delabie: I like the three previous John Wick movies very much, but that fourth installment left me somewhat disappointed. It is as if the magic, including in the Paris segment, had vanished. It was nice to see Scott Adkins being offered an original role (in the Berlin segment) though. To me, his best movies are Undisputed II: Last Man Standing (aka Boyka) and its sequels, as well as Avengement and The Debt Collector and its sequel.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Do you believe the sound, visual quality is something you can achieve even with modest technical means?

Alan Delabie: A few months ago I was with David Worth, who had just bought a new iPhone. We did some videos tests with his iPhone, and we witnessed how it could shoot in 6K not less than in slow mention. With two iPhones (at least, that model or one comparable), two tripods, and a lavalier microphone, you’re perfectly in a position to shoot something that is quite good in terms of sound and visuals. David suggested to me that I watch Tangerine, a feature that was shot entirely with three iPhones. I must say the movie isn’t bad at all.

I positively react to the fact that, in a sense, it is now increasingly easier to get the technical means to make one’s movie, and even to have one’s work released. If you cannot have your film rendered available on a streaming platform, you can still post it on YouTube, which remains a way of getting your work known. But beware: if you want to make a (good) movie, you must be able to proceed with a team job and, accordingly, to delegate some tasks and to respect, listen your colleagues. Also, you must be ready to be held to account whenever you’re getting your funds through a crowdfunding or some directly reached investor or sponsor.

Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you feel about The Last Kumite?

Alan Delabie: Quite a cool project. I am somewhat disappointed that Émilien De Falco wasn’t part of the adventure, as he would have been perfect as a lead character. It obviously remains a great cast with people like Matthias Hues, Billy Blanks, Kurt McKinney, Cynthia Rothrock, and both Qissi brothers. I heard there was a fight between Billy and Matthias, which I obviously look forward to discovering. I collaborated with Animal King, a capoeira master who fights in The Last Kumite. I must say he is very talented.

Grégoire Canlorbe: You’re regularly involved with the score of your movies. Would you be ready to collaborate with Goblin band, who composed the soundtrack of many Dario Argento and other Italian horror classics?

Alan Delabie: I love Goblin’s work. To me, they reached their summit with the soundtrack of Luigi Cozzi’s Contamination. Yes, I would be ready to collaborate with them, as well as with Fabio Frizzi, the composer on Zombi 2 and many other Lucio Fulci classics.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Thank you for your time. Is there something you would like to add?

Alan Delabie: It was quite sympathetic. I may be the conductor whenever I am alone to direct a movie; but I would be nothing without my collaborators. I may do my best to deliver a good movie; but my work could hardly shine if it weren’t for the talent of each of my actors, and that of each of my technicians. That’s why I attach special importance to bringing to light my collaborators and their credits, and to carrying out an authentic team job in a spirit of gratefulness.

That conversation was initially published on Bulletproof Action, on 3 October 2023

A conversation with Ron Smoorenburg, for Bulletproof Action

by Grégoire Canlorbe · Mai 1, 2023

Ron Smoorenburg is a Dutch martial artist, actor, stuntman, and fight choreographer. He is notably known for his respective fights with Scott Adkins in Ninja: Shadow of a Tear, with Michael Jai White in Never Back Down: No Surrender, and—above all—with Jackie Chan in Benny Chan’s and Jackie Chan’s Who Am I? He currently lives in Thailand.

One the newest projects Ron Smoorenburg is being involved with, here as an actor, is feature Funayurei, which is being directed by Abel Ernest Tembo from a screenplay by Grégoire Canlorbe.

Grégoire Canlorbe: You started your practicing martial arts at the early age of seven, in Netherlands. At the time of your youth, were martial arts, and those movies centered on martial arts, as popular in Netherlands as they were, say, in America?

Ron Smoorenburg: Actually it was the best time ever in the 80’s early 90’s and I’m very happy to be born in this generation. These days movies were motivating, actors looked ripped and movies had great training sessions on music, there were lots of martial art movies on VHS video cassette, I remember watching Karate Kid on a birthday party and we all stood up and jumped around doing kicks, a start of a journey which never stopped since then. We also had this series called ‘The Master’ a ninja tv series, all the kids were making ninja stars and literally playing ninja outside. When I was 12 I saw Young master on tv from Jackie Chan and a few years later JCVD’s Bloodsport came out and No Retreat No Surrender movies we basically watched everyday till there was no sound anymore.

Grégoire Canlorbe: How did Jackie Chan notice you, and end up hiring you to play the strongest of the two opponents at the end of Who Am I?

Ron Smoorenburg: My boss in the office I worked saw an article about Jackie Chan casting for 300 extras in his movie shooting in Holland. I asked half a day off to send a letter and pictures to the agency in Rotterdam. After pushing a lot I was chosen out of 1000 applicants to become an extra.

I had to play 3 days as a business guy in the background and you can actually see me in one of the scenes. After the Dutch local stunt team laughed about my ambition and literally ridiculed me I asked one of the JC team members if I can do action, he asked me to give him a showreel. I was a graphic designer so the same night I made up a cover like I was already some kind of action guy in movies. I just had the record highest (kick 11 feet) on national tv and I always did movie fight demo’s on martial art events. I also was the first Karateka doing a free style Kata – A karate form on music and I had all of this on tape.

And the next day after the team of JC saw the video in a lunch break they called me over to do the same moves live in front of them. They said I was the best out of 20 guys auditioning for the role of the final fight scene. 10 minutes later someone came to take measurements for the suit I had to wear in the final fight. It was like winning the lottery but another challenge emerged.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Did you have some trouble adapting to the quick rhythmic movements of Jackie Chan?

Ron Smoorenburg: To answer this question the best is that you can compare it with putting someone in a racecar who never drove a Formule 1 race. Even though I am a martial artist all my life, fighting someone like Jackie, top of the top level in a 1^st movie ever is definitely a challenge.

I was always looking at JCVD doing splits high kicks, and JCVD doesn’t really use these rhythms Jackie uses. Even action veterans like Scott Adkins and Eric Jacobus admit that this HK style isn’t easy in the beginning and especially fighting these stars with the added pressure as well.

I managed to pick it up. Sadly in the beginning they let another stuntman Brad Allen do a combo for me which I wasn’t even allowed to try before Jackie got a little upset, in the documentary they reversed it so they show Jackie got t little upset then bringing the stunt double, but that wasn’t the case so I felt a little bit hurt by this and it did even affect my career a little.

In reality every stuntman should know that fighting Jackie isn’t easy and even his team members came to me saying after 15 years they were still nervous fighting Jackie. So what can we do? I have to see it positively and learning the hard way and having lots of pressure is part of the game sometimes. This is my big dream and no one will take it away, that’s why I never stopped.

To be honest every movie after this experience was more easy as I was used to this huge amount of pressure. I can tell you even people who are in the stunt biz for years would still have a challenge right now if they have to fight Jackie, believe me.

Grégoire Canlorbe: What is your view of the evolution of Jackie Chan’s career following the retrocession of Hong Kong?

Ron Smoorenburg: I think he should leave politics to the politicians, he came from HK and he has a huge fanbase there, and things are sensitive.

Grégoire Canlorbe: How did it feel to act as a villain in Clarence Fok Yiu-leung’s Martial Angels?

Ron Smoorenburg: Actually he gave me a hell of an opportunity but with acting I was still beginning so I definitely could have done better now. It was a cool movie with 7 action girls and a great concept.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Please tell us about the backstage of that fight in Prachya Pinkaew’s Tom-Yum-Goong in which you’re one of many fighters facing Tony Jaa.

Ron Smoorenburg: When I came to Thailand to do a European tv series, I visited the set of this movie and met the director Prachya, I literally did the same as I did with Who am I? I had to show some moves to the director and they asked me if I was ok to be in a group fight because they already shot all other fights, I was happy to be doing action in Asia and with a cool action star like Tony Jaa so I agreed. We got on really well. He actually gave me a real good kick straight in the face and that was very memorable.

Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you account for the popularity of Thailand when it comes to choosing the main location for the plot in an action movie?

Ron Smoorenburg: Thailand got it all, urban, forest, alleys, rooftops, mountains, beaches, also some very gritty and characteristic streets in Bangkok from rough to high class. You can get a lot of things done in Thailand.

Grégoire Canlorbe: After spending so many years in Thailand, do you sense your heart and soul have become those of a Thai man?

Ron Smoorenburg: Yes I have this sense of freedom and life which I don’t find in the west, Bangkok is alive day and night, I train in the night, also the Thai smile and general happiness is here for a fact and when I go back to Holland I see people running faster and looking more serious to be honest.

Grégoire Canlorbe: You acted in Nicolas Winding Refn’s Only God Forgives. Esthetically speaking, how do you assess the fight opposing Vithaya Pansringarm to Ryan Gosling?

Ron Smoorenburg: I’m not a fan of it, its not really memorable, I feel its just choreo to be choreo.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Do you share the common line of criticism that the way of filming the stunt and action stuff in John Wick movies lacks any true artistic dimension, thus boiling down to a mere “technician” work?

Ron Smoorenburg: I felt that for the first 3 parts, there were no rewinders for me like the movies I described when I was young. But John Wick 4, did change it for me, having people like Donnie Yen, Scott Adkins, Marko Zaror they gave flavor to it. The other JW parts were more like ok there’s another guy in a black suit coming, and you just know he’s going to lose the same way as all the others did.

Grégoire Canlorbe: You fought Scott Adkins in Ninja: Shadow of a Tear. How was the fight choreographed, executed, and shot? How do you sum up what makes the prowess of Isaac Florentine in filming action?

Ron Smoorenburg: This was a scene where we had to do all in 1 take and this is very cool that Isaac did this together with Choreographer Tim Man who is a genius. It was shot very well and we did have 1 rehearsal for it (Not like Jackie Chan where they do it straight away on the spot) In the original choreo I actually did a few jump kicks, but it was cut for some reason, its sad because I also like to show stuff. Still this fight is very nice and Scott Adkins is a beast (endurance wise) when it comes to shooting.

Grégoire Canlorbe: You acted in Michael Jai White’s Never Back Down: No Surrender, in which you fought White himself. How do you assess Michael Jai White as a movie director, and as a martial artist?

Ron Smoorenburg: I felt he was very good at punches besides his kicks, he’s a real martial artist and you can see and feel he loves it. Also to me he’s always a gentleman.

Grégoire Canlorbe: In Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li, you acted alongside the late Michael Clarke Duncan. Did you have much interaction with him behind the camera?

Ron Smoorenburg: Not too much but he was always smiling, he’s super humble and what a personality. Also if you see where he came from before he became an actor it’s more than respect what he did.

Grégoire Canlorbe: To you, does Desperate Housewife’s Neal McDonough’s portrayal of Bison in Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li compare with that of Raúl Juliá in Street Fighter?

Ron Smoorenburg: No it doesn’t work, they shouldn’t do these things.

Grégoire Canlorbe: You were cast in Death Note: L Change the Word. Did you read the manga, Death Note?

Ron Smoorenburg: Yes it’s super cool and I’m happy to be part of it.

Grégoire Canlorbe: How did you enter the world of Bollywood? How does it feel to be part of the latter?

Ron Smoorenburg: We have Bollywood movies shooting in Thailand, and some directors remembered me and the stunt team and ask us to came over to Bollywood and south India for other movies. It’s always a challenge getting your money though in 90% of the cases to be honest. And they are not that safe as well. The coolest movie I did was definitely Brothers with Akshay Kumar with a cool MMA fight in the ring. That movie also had good drama and was a remake of Warrior.

Grégoire Canlorbe: What can you tell us of that new project you’re being involved with as an actor, alongside Mark Stas—Funayurei?

Ron Smoorenburg: I’m very excited about this project as I will fight alongside Mark. Mark is amazing and for me a new action star not less than Donnie Yen, Jackie or Jet Li, for real. Marks action style and adaptation, implementation is amazing. Real time on the spot he can even adapt if needed. He’s a true master. I actually contacted him years ago and he came to Thailand, We did 2 big fights in English Dogs the movie and it’s very memorable. We always look out for the next time to fight and one of the main reasons I upgrade myself so hard is to prepare for my next fight.

I created my own movie style Recharge and I feel it’s the perfect to fight Mark with Wing Flow. I love Mark and really he deserves all the best. Having Mark is having a Diamond on board. Every investor/director/producer should be very happy to have him, and I’m happy to work alongside or fight with him.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Thank you for your time. Is there anything you would like to add?

Ron Smoorenburg: Currently RECHARGE, the fighting style I developed is going really well, its based on chain lighting and has lots of unique combos and some unique kicks I designed from scratch. The message I have for performers and artists is to always be unique and creative, never follow the herd. Now I’m going to USA with my Management, Hollywood productions, Varol Porsemay to set a foot on the ground there. I realize I have to offer something, that’s why I work day and night on it. It’s like as a car which can have a nice a cover but also needs a good engine. The stronger the engine is the better the car, so keep working on yourself, and with Love… you get what you can carry. As I always say, LIFE IS ACTION.

That conversation was originally published by Bulletproof Action, in April 2023

A conversation with Sheldon Lettich, for The Postil Magazine

by Grégoire Canlorbe · Mar 1, 2022

Sheldon Lettich is an American screenwriter, film director, and producer. He is notably known for his work in the action film genre—and his collaborations with Jean-Claude Van Damme, Sylvester Stallone, Mark Dacascos, Dolph Lundgren, and Daniel Bernhardt. Besides co-writing Bloodsport and Rambo III, Sheldon Lettich directed and co-wrote Lionheart, Double Impact, and Only the Strong.

Grégoire Canlorbe: What is the situation with regard to your long-established movie-project about Vietnam?

Sheldon Lettich: Well, I’ve written a lot of scripts about Vietnam, but none of them has been made. I wrote a script called Firebase. And it was kind of like that movie called Zulu. It was kind of like that. Basically, a small group of Americans on a hilltop firebase, and they got attacked by a huge number of North Vietnamese and Viet Cong. That was the screenplay I wrote a number of years ago. And Sylvester Stallone read the screenplay, and he liked it. And that’s how I ended up working with him on Rambo III, because he had read that screenplay. I’ve written a few other Vietnam screenplays, but none of them has gotten made, yet.

Grégoire Canlorbe: You collaborated with Sylvester Stallone on Rambo III. How did your team come up with the idea of the tank-versus-helicopter scene? Or the idea of colonel Trautman’s “In your ass!” line?

Sheldon Lettich: The tank-versus-helicopter scene wasn’t my idea, that was Stallone’s idea. And I thought it was not a plausible idea, but it seemed to work. You liked it, right? A helicopter versus a tank just makes no kind of sense at all because a tank is not designed to shoot at something moving fast like an airplane. A tank versus an airplane or a helicopter makes no kind of sense at all. You’d have to be very lucky. It takes some time to aim that cannon on a tank. So for a tank versus a helicopter, I didn’t believe it, but it seemed to work. There we are, it was Sly’s idea. As for colonel Trautman’s line in the interrogation scene, that was Stallone’s idea as well. That wasn’t mine.

Grégoire Canlorbe: What kind of movie could be done about the withdrawal of the US troops from Afghanistan? Perhaps a new Rambo installment, in which Stallone would rescue a group of hostages once again abandoned in Afghanistan and, in the process, decapitate his former Taliban allies turned into despots of the region?

Sheldon Lettich: I don’t see a good action movie coming out of that because everything about that was very disappointing. That really shouldn’t have happened the way that it happened. I don’t think anybody would want to see a movie about that. And Stallone is in his 70s, now. He’s a little old to go back into Afghanistan. And I think he’s had his—I think Rambo has had—his Afghanistan adventure and doesn’t really need another one. So I don’t see that happening at all. I’m 70 years old. Stallone’s even older than me. I don’t know, he’s like 72. I don’t think he’ll want to do some crazy action movie where he’s running around firing a gun and killing all kinds of Afghans. It’s just not going to happen again.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Jean-Claude Van Damme served as an editor on Bloodsport, which you co-wrote. How much did he change the story with respect to the original screenplay?

Sheldon Lettich: The first cut was very bad, so Jean-Claude got involved. And he basically recut the fight scenes because he was involved with those fight scenes. He knew how the fight scenes should work. And there was another editor that Cannon brought in to recut the movie and to restructure it. And so they fixed it up. But Jean-Claude basically worked on the fight scenes, and he made those work really good. In the meanwhile, they got some other writers involved who made some changes. Most of the changes, I thought, were very good, actually. What I mostly did with Bloodsport is I came up with the idea. I structured it. I came up with the three-act structure where the beginning is that everybody’s getting ready to go to the fight. The middle is the tournament, and the movie ends after Gong Li is defeated and Jean-Claude goes home. So, that’s the structure that I came up with.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Before Bloodsport, had you been involved with Karate Tiger?

Sheldon Lettich: No, I had nothing to do with that. That’s the first movie that I saw Jean-Claude in, here in the US. It was called No Retreat, No Surrender. And that was the movie—when we were looking for an actor for Bloodsport, that movie came out in theaters. It was playing in theaters here, in Los Angeles so the producer, Mark DiSalle, told us, “We found this new actor, Jean-Claude Van Damme. Go see his movies in the theaters, right now.” And that was No Retreat, No Surrender. And we were very impressed with him. And that’s pretty much—that helped him solidify the role in Bloodsport.

Grégoire Canlorbe: After Bloodsport, did you get involved in Kickboxer?

Sheldon Lettich: Well, I was involved just in that Kickboxer was the project that Mark DiSalle approached me with. When I first met Mark, he was looking for a writer, and he had an idea for a martial arts movie called Kickboxer. And so, he pitched me the idea, and I thought I had a better idea, which was Bloodsport. Bloodsport had not been written, but I’d been talking with Frank Dux about his experiences. Turned out that they weren’t real experiences: he had made all that stuff up.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Please tell us about your partnership with Jean-Claude Van Damme in writing Full Contact, which is known as Lionheart in the US if I’m not mistaken.

Sheldon Lettich: Yes, Lionheart. Actually, I got together with Jean-Claude and he came up with the basic idea. That was his idea. It was called the Wrong Bet, at first. We sat down in a coffee shop, one night on Sunset Boulevard to talk about it. We were in that coffee shop for about three hours, and the manager wanted us to leave because we were taking up—it was kind of empty, but he still wanted us out of there. He thought we were there for too long. And we told him to leave us alone. “We’re working on something, right now.” And then, he called the cops. So actually, we had some sheriff’s deputies come in there and tell us to leave. But in those three hours, we came up with the basic story line for Lionheart. But it was Jean-Claude’s original idea, that whole thing about—I think I came up with the Foreign Legion idea, but he came up with that idea about his sister-in-law, and she’s got a little daughter, and he has to fight in order to make money to take care of them. That was Jean-Claude’s.

Grégoire Canlorbe: The fight between JCVD and Bolo Yeung at the end of Double Impact is quite an epic moment. How was it shot?

Sheldon Lettich: Actually, it was shot in two different locations because we shot part of it in Hong Kong. I’m just trying to think about. We were on a ship in Hong Kong. No, the exterior of the ship was in Hong Kong, the interior of the ship was in Los Angeles. That was in San Pedro. And so, we actually shot on this ship, and then we looked at the footage later. We were kind of rushed that day. We didn’t have enough time to really do it right. And so we had a set built in Santa Clarita, also in Los Angeles, to shoot some additional shots. So it was basically like—it looks like it’s all done at the same time, but it was actually done in two different locations at two different times. We cut it all together, and it looked really great.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Why did JCVD never act with Bolo Yeung again after Bloodsport and Double Impact? After all, three is a magic number as they say.

Sheldon Lettich: Well, he made two movies with Bolo. Bloodsport has Bolo, and Double Impact has Bolo. It’s hard to just keep using the same villain over and over again.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Are you concerned for the future of the cinema of Hong Kong as the Chinese Communist Party will be extending its grip on the city?

Sheldon Lettich: I’m not an expert on that, but obviously, we’re not going to see Hong Kong movies like the old ones. It’s all going to change now because the Chinese have taken over. So there are certain things you can say, certain things you can’t say. The Chinese government controls whatever is going on in Hong Kong. So you’ll never see those Hong Kong movies like we saw before, the Jackie Chan’s. Oh, Jackie Chan, of course, is doing movies in China, also. But they’re not going to be quite the same as those John Woo movies. I don’t think he’ll be able to make movies anymore in Hong Kong with corrupt police officers. Basically, the way that the Chinese government sees it, there are no corrupt police officers in China. There are no gangsters in China. So, basically, everything has to change. They’re up to do a lot of historical stuff. So, you’re probably not going to see any contemporary stories like in those Hong Kong movies where you’ve got good cops, bad cops, gangsters, all kinds of stuff like that. I think that’s going away. And all they’re going to see out of Hong Kong and China is stuff that takes place hundreds of years ago in earlier eras in China, but not contemporary. Because contemporary means that you’ve got to have good guys and bad guys. And in China, they want everybody to believe that China is a perfect country. There are no gangsters, there are no corrupt cops. So everything is wonderful in China, which means you can’t have much drama for a contemporary movie. So, that era—the era of the John Woo movies and Ringo Lam and all of that—that’s pretty much over, for now.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Please tell us about The Hard Corps, starring Jean-Claude Van Damme and Vivica A. Fox. How did such great movie with such great cast end up as a DTV?

Sheldon Lettich: Well, we were hoping it was going to go to theaters. And the problem was that the producers just didn’t want to spend the money to get other actors that we needed to make it a theatrical movie. Because originally, it was supposed to be Jean-Claude and Wesley Snipes. So the boxer was supposed to be played either by Wesley Snipes or Cuba Gooding, which would have made it a much bigger movie. Basically, they said, “We’ve got Jean-Claude Van Damme. We’re paying him a lot. If we get Wesley Snipes, we’ll have to pay Wesley Snipes the same amount of money we’re paying Jean-Claude, and that’s going to make the budget too big.” Now, in my opinion, it would have helped the movie. We would have had a bigger name in there. We would have had three big names. We would have had Jean-Claude, Wesley Snipes and Vivica A. Fox. And I think for sure, it would have been a theatrical movie. And that’s why it didn’t go theatrical because we just didn’t have the money we needed to get the right cast.

Grégoire Canlorbe: I’d like to hear you about The Order, which easily ranks among your best collaborations with JCVD. The scene in which Van Damme is dressed as a Hassidic Jew is just exceptional.

Sheldon Lettich: I made another movie in Israel—I did a movie there with Dolph Lundgren, The Last Patrol. So I got to know Israel pretty well. The cops trying to catch Van Damme, it was basically my idea. But I didn’t write the original script for The Order. It was written by this guy, Les Weldon. I wanted to make it more like an old Hitchcock movie. Hitchcock made a movie called North By Northwest and another one called The Man Who Knew Too Much. And that’s what I wanted to do with The Order.You’ve got the bad guys and the cops all after Jean-Claude. So, basically, he’s in trouble with everybody. And that’s how all those Hitchcock movies worked. I rewatched North By Northwest just recently. It was on TV. And I realized there were a lot of ideas that I took from North By Northwest. And I even forgot that I took the ideas, like this one scene in North By Northwest with Cary Grant. He’s trying to disguise himself, so he puts on some dark sunglasses. I did the exact same thing in The Order. We got the cops looking for Jean-Claude, and he’s putting dark sunglasses on to disguise himself. So that’s the kind of movie it was supposed to be. And Hitchcock put a lot of humor into those movies, too, and I put a lot of humor into The Order.

There was a Jean-Paul Belmondo movie called The Man from Rio. It was in the 1960s. I saw it in the theater. And so I wanted to make it a little bit like that. The same thing where everybody is chasing our hero. The cops and the bad guys were all after him. And then, there was another movie I saw. It was a French movie. So those two French movies, right there. It was called The Mad Adventures of Rabbi Jacob, where some guy was anti-Semitic. He’s got the mafia after him, and he disguises himself as a Hasidic Jew. And then, the bad guys and the cops are all chasing him. So that’s another part of that idea that I had. And then, just being in Jerusalem and just seeing these guys walking around, I just thought that would be a good disguise for Jean-Claude to have if he was trying to get away from the cops. So that was what pretty much led to that. And I really wasn’t sure if Jean-Claude would go for it, if he would actually do that. And he did. He totally went for it. He put the beard on and everything, and that’s my favorite sequence in the entire movie. I really love the way that whole sequence turned out. So that’s my favorite part of The Order.

Our producer was Avi Lerner. And one thing Avi told me before we did the movie, he said, “l want an action scene every 10 minutes. Lots of action.” And he paid for it, too. They had the budget. We did a lot of crazy stuff in The Order. We were at the airport. Can you imagine shooting—nobody else has done that in Israel, but Avi had some connections. He had a cousin who was a pilot for El Al. That was how he got that jet where Jean-Claude was trying to get around the jet and just coming through. That was Avi’s cousin in the cockpit. And then, Avi was a good friend of the Mayor of Israel at the time, Ehud Olmert. And that’s how we got permission to shoot in Jerusalem. I mean, can you imagine? We’re doing this crazy chase scene, and we’re really on the streets of Jerusalem for most of it.

It was very hard to shoot there. It’s very crowded. And the people who live there, it’s divided between Jews and Muslims. And they disagree on just about everything, but they all love Jean-Claude Van Damme. All of them are Van Damme fans. So we had a hard time getting away from them because they’d be surrounding us and chasing after us. They were like, “Van Damme! Van Damme!” They wanted him to sign autographs. It became very difficult to shoot in Jerusalem, so we ended up building sets in Bulgaria to look like Jerusalem. Half of that chase scene was shot in Jerusalem and on the real streets, and then the other half we shot on a recreated version of Jerusalem in Bulgaria. And what I find interesting about this is that even people who are from Israel or who’ve been in Jerusalem many times don’t realize that we shot in two different places. They think that we shot the entire thing on the streets of Jerusalem. So we did a pretty good job recreating that Jerusalem look.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Before Mark Dacascos acted for Christophe Gans in Crying Freeman and Brotherhood of the Wolf, he was revealed in Only the Strong. Please tell us about your collaboration with Dacascos.

Sheldon Lettich: Well, he had a manager named Katherine James, and she was the one that was pushing Mark. She got in touch with me, said, “You need to work with my client, Mark Dacascos. He’s going to be the next big action star.” And so I met Mark and I liked him very much. And one thing I found out about him was that he was very good with gymnastics. He was a good acrobat, and I think he’d already been studying some capoeira at the time. And that was an important part of the movie. It was all about capoeira. So Mark was willing to go to classes with this real capoeira master from Brazil. So he learned all that stuff and was very willing to do anything I asked him to do. And it ended up working out great for the movie because he was able to do so much stuff that Van Damme can’t do, for example. Like Mark was good with the gymnastics. He could do flips. He could jump in the air. Jean-Claude can’t really do that kind of stuff. He’s good with the kicks and the punching, but if he has to do something gymnastic, we generally have to get a stunt double to do it for him. And also, Jean-Claude was not good with weapons, like martial arts weapons. He can use a gun. Of course, anybody can fire a gun, but he couldn’t do like the sticks and poles and all that kind of stuff, and Mark could do all of that stuff. We realized that in the movie, we’ve got him having fights with people using sticks and everything. And with Jean-Claude we couldn’t do that.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Scott Adkins is sometimes thought to be Jean-Claude Van Damme’s spiritual heir. How do you assess his performances?

Sheldon Lettich: I think he’s great. I met him a few years ago, and I knew he was going to do great as an action actor. And he’s been doing terrific. He’s been doing a lot of great action movies. Unfortunately, we’re in a different era, now. Had I met Scott in the 1980s, he probably would have become a much bigger star because those kinds of movies were popular back then, in the 80s and 90s. By the time Scott came on the scene, those kinds of movies were not happening, anymore. And now, it’s become superhero movies. So superhero movies have kind of taken over as far as action movies. And Scott has certainly done a number of action films, and he’s been great in them, but that’s just not the kind of movie that’s getting the big theatrical releases, nowadays, which is unfortunate.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Do you share Martin Scorsese’s, Ridley Scott’s, and Denis Villeneuve’s recently expressed reservations about Marvel movies?

Sheldon Lettich: Well, personally, I’m a Marvel Comics fan. From a long time ago, I was reading all those comic books in the 60s when they came out. I would go down to the to the store. The day that they put the comic books on the stands, I would go down to the store and get them. So I had all the originals. I had the first Fantastic Four and the first X-Men, the first Spider-Man. I had all those. I was a big fan of Marvel comic books back then. And then, when they started making the Marvel movies, I thought the first few were really great. I loved the first Iron Man movie, for example. And the first Captain America movie, I thought that was terrific. But then, they just started getting just too big for my taste. They’re too big, too many characters. And I started losing interest in those Marvel movies. They’re well-made, but there’s a sameness to them. They have the same kind of structure. They all end up with these huge action scenes with lots of special effects, lots of CGI. And personally, CGI is great, but I prefer action films that have some real stuff going on screen where people are actually fighting. They’re not relying on CGI.

I was a big fan of the earlier James Bond movies, the pre-CGI James Bond movie. I was a big James Bond fan for many years. But with some of these more recent ones, once they started getting into too much CGI, and I wasn’t seeing real stunts anymore, I started losing interest in those. Although the Daniel Craig ones, I think are really good. They basically made some real changes with those Daniel Craig versions. But even so, I’m just not the Bond’s fan that I used to be many years ago. And the Marvel movies, Scorsese says they’re not real movies. Well, they really are more like just an assembly line product. There’s a sameness to all of them, now. It just feels like you’re watching the same movie: lots of CGI, lots of explosions and crazy weapons, crazy flying machines. But they just don’t have the same kind of heart that they had in the earlier ones, the first few that they made.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Do you share the commonly heard criticism that Christopher Nolan’s action scenes are as much bad and poorly shot as his screenplays and concepts are astute?

Sheldon Lettich: Christopher, I think he’s great. See, his action scenes feel fresh and original to me because he’s basically running the show. He’s coming up with these movies. He’s not recycling some comic book characters. He’s doing original movies, coming up with original action scenes. Whereas with the Marvel movies, the producers are pretty much telling—they’re hiring directors who are basically traffic cops and telling them, “This is what the movie is going to be. This is what the action scenes are going to be. And you get out there, and you just tell the actors what to do.” They just move the characters around. And with Christopher Nolan, it’s not like that. He’s basically making Christopher Nolan movies. He’s doing action scenes that are fresh and original and doing them the way he wants to do them. And I really admire him for that. And James Cameron, too. James Cameron is another example. I love the Avatar movie. I’ve watched it a number of times. The action scenes are great. Everything about Avatar is fantastic. But James Cameron, basically, he’s calling his own shots. He’s basically saying, “I want to do this movie called Avatar. These are the actors I want.” And he goes and makes the movie. And he’s got no studio executives telling him how to structure his movie, what characters are going to be in it. It’s basically his show. And that makes a big difference.

Grégoire Canlorbe: How do you explain that Hollywood, which used to be somewhat conservative and patriotic in the Reaganian era, has become so woke in the last few years?

Sheldon Lettich: No, it wasn’t really conservative in the eighties. It was not Hollywood. That was Stallone. That was Stallone’s own point of view. Stallone was somewhat patriotic. He was a big supporter of Reagan, America. Reagan was, I don’t know—I wouldn’t call him a close personal friend, but he knew Reagan. He voted for him. I’m not sure if he campaigned for him, but they were very closely aligned in their politics. The rest of Hollywood was not. Stallone was kind of an outlier when it came to Hollywood. Oliver Stone, for example, has a completely different point of view. So that was Stallone and Schwarzenegger. Both of them were Republicans. Schwarzenegger even ended up being the Republican governor of California. So that was really their point of view, but that was not Hollywood. Hollywood was actually much more liberal during that period.

And that’s why the Rambo movies got such bad reviews, too. Like Rambo III, I mean, we got a Golden Razzie Award for Worst Screenplay, Worst Movie because most of the press was very liberal. And so they were not really voting their conscience about the movie. It was all about politics. “Because Stallone is a conservative Republican, we’re going to say that his movie is shit.” But actually, Rambo III, I think, is a pretty damn good movie. I like Rambo II even better. But basically, that was not the Hollywood attitude at the time. That was Stallone, Schwarzenegger—Bruce Willis also ended up being a Republican. So a lot of these action stars had a different point of view from most people in Hollywood. Like even Van Damme, he’s very conservative. He’s not an American. I think he is an American citizen now, actually. And he was a Trump supporter. Even Stallone and Schwarzenegger were not Trump supporters but Van Damme was. We’re not talking about Hollywood in general, we’re talking about action stars who, for the most part, tended to be more conservative and lean towards the Republicans more than the Democrats.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Please tell us about this recent movie of yours whose main character is a soldier dog, Max.

Sheldon Lettich: Well, that brought me back to Afghanistan because the beginning of the movie takes place in Afghanistan? So rather than Rambo in Afghanistan, Max was really Rambo with four legs instead of two. He was basically a Rambo character. Max, he’s a soldier in Afghanistan. He gets sent back to the States. And then, when some bad guys are threatening his family, well, then he uses all his skills to defeat the bad guys. So it was really Rambo with four legs and a tail. That was basically Max. And I got the idea for that because I got some puppies a number of years ago at the pound, and supposedly, they were German Shepherds. They were little, so it was hard to tell. So I got these two puppies, and months later, I discovered that they were not German shepherds, they were Belgian malinois. And so I did some research on Belgian malinois, and I found out that the army and the police are using these dogs because they’re the best dogs for that kind of work. So I was doing my research, and I saw that there were a couple of dog handlers that died in Afghanistan or Iraq. And then, their families asked, “Well, my son is dead, but can I have his dog? Can his dog be part of our family because that’s all we have left of him from his time in the military?” And so these families ended up adopting the dogs, and that was the basis for Max. Basically, this dog handler gets killed, his dog survives. And then, the family back in Texas wants to adopt the dog. And the dog ends up being their protector, coming to the rescue.

Grégoire Canlorbe: Thank you for the opportunity to do this interview.

Sheldon Lettich: You’re welcome. That’s funny, I was just exchanging text messages with Brian Thompson. And Brian is in The Order. And Brian is a real expert with swords. He was in the Conan Show at Universal Studios. So he used to work with swords all the time. He’s really good with them. And then, our stunt double for Jean-Claude in The Order was David Leitch. Well, David is also really good with weapons, so Brian and he worked out a great sword fight sequence. And David, by the way, has now gone on to be a director. He directed Deadpool 2. He did that one, I forgot the title of it, the one with Dwayne Johnson. He did this really huge movie with Dwayne Johnson [Fast & Furious Presents: Hobbs & Shaw]. And he was our double for Jean-Claude.

So, we were supposed to have a sword fight at the end of The Order.But Jean-Claude, like I said, he’s not good with weapons. We tried doing a few things with him. He wasn’t comfortable with it. He’s comfortable with what he’s good at, with the kicks and the punches and all of that. So he said, “Guys, let’s not do this. I can’t do this scene.” And basically, Brian and David were going to do most of the scene with the swords. And we were just going to need some close ups of Jean-Claude just swinging a sword or something. And he just didn’t feel it was going to work. So we went away from that whole sequence. And it’s a bit disappointing because I thought we needed a really good sword fight at the end of The Order, but we ended up not getting it. It’s kind of a disappointing scene.

That interview was originally published in The Postil Magazine‘s March 2022 issue